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  • New
    djtetei
    Newcomer - Level 1
    2022-06-19

    Behringer KM750 specifications state a voltage gain of 32dB. However, if we do the math, the published voltage gain value doesn't add up.

    The specifications states that the KM 750 delivers 200 watts into 8 ohms with an input sensitivity of 0.775 Volts.

    Output voltage formula: sqrt (power x impedance)

    Output voltage calculated: sqrt (200 x 8) = 40V

    Voltage gain (amplification factor): output voltage / input voltage = Av (amplification factor)

    Voltage gain (amplification factor) calculated: 40 V / 0.775 V = 51.62

    Voltage gain (dB) formula: 20log(Av)

    Voltage gain (dB) calculated: 20log(51.61) = 34.25 dB

    The calculated voltage gain is 2 dB higher than the specified voltage gain.

    The only scenario the specified voltage gain is 32 dB is if the input sensitivity is, in fact, 1 Volt.

    Furthermore, if we take the officially specified input sensitivity (0.775 V) and voltage gain (32 dBU) and do the math, we arrive at a different result for the output power of 119 watts, which is less than the officially specified power into 8 ohm load.

    So, the following question arises: when input sensitivity of 0.775 V is selected, the maximum input voltage required for maximum rated power is 0.775 V (0 dBU) or 1 V (+2 dBU)?

    The following scenario applies to Behringer KM 1700, also.

    Update:

    On 29.06.2022, MusicTribe Customer Solutions Specialist Mr Kyle Johnson replied to my support ticket,  and his answer is as follows: "The 200W is the peak power not the RMS, the calculation should based on the RMS 130W for KM750 and 310W for KM1700. Also, the peak power is actually about 210W."

    This is important information and should definitely be included in the product's user manual.

    Starting from this, suppose we now have a peak power of 210W into 8 ohm load.

    Calculate the peak voltage: SQRT(210*8)=40.987 Vpeak

    Calculate the RMS voltage: 40.987*0.707=28.977 Vrms

    Calculate power (RMS): SQR(28.977)/8=104.95 W

    Calculate amplification factor (X) for 0.775 input sensitivity: 28.977/0.775=37.389

    Calculate dB voltage gain: 20*LOG(37.389)=31.454 dB 

    As you can see, the statement about 130 W RMS doesn't hold up.

    Amplifier power is calculated, not measured.

    A Voltmeter measures voltage in volts. An Ammeter measures current in amperes. An Ohmmeter measures resistance in ohms. Any two of these measurements will allow calculation of amplifier power (in watts).

    If you search MusicTribe knowledge base articles, under Behringer brand you will find an article called "What is RMS" with the following statements:

    "We no longer list our amp power ratings by RMS as these tend to not give true results as tests are always done using signal generators and specific waveforms which don't reflect in comparison to music, music comes at fuller frequencies and non linear dynamics which of course as I'm sure you're aware is nothing like a test tone generated from a signal generator...As a rule of thumb, you can assume RMS is around half the peak value."

    Of course music comes with broad frequency range and nonlinear dynamics, because music is mixed and mastered in a specific way, to ensure tonal balance and a specific dynamic range to make it sound good. Its purpose is to be listened and not to be used as a test tone for audio equipment capabilities and limits, although there are certain instruments that can put an audio equipment to the test. On the other hand, test tones are created and used specifically for testing and measurement of audio equipment capabilities and limits. By using test tones and filtered noise waveforms able to stress and measure the audio equipment capabilities and quality of assembly, manufacturers ensure the customer's piece of mind, knowing that when the specific equipment is used with music, it will never reach the operational limits, unless it is used by reckless or unprofessional people. A 0 dBFS test tone with a crest factor of 3 dB is able to push an amplifier or a loudspeaker to its limits, if played long enough, compared to a music track with a crest factor (dynamic range) of about 14 dB, because the latter will never bring an amplifier to its current limits. As many of you know, music is mixed and mastered with different dynamic range, according to the author or the mastering engineer tastes, resulting in dynamic range values between 6 and 20 dB, which makes it difficult to be used as a test reference. You could use music as a test reference if all music tracks are mastered to the same dynamic range (crest factor) target level, but that is not the case. Therefore if a certain audio equipment manufacturer choose to publish peak values for power ratings, it can also publish the calculated average power output relative to the measured RMS voltage output of its equipment, under specifically stated test conditions (proprietary or standardized), and stand behind its statements, ensuring the proper sound system design and implementation for a potential customer. In my experience, failing to disclose usefull information to the customers and failing to provide a solid customer support for parts, warranty and technical feedback is a sure way to destroy a brand's image and affect its business future, even if that particular brand is making good efforts to offer competitive products in terms of functionality. 

    Anyway, as a conclusion, it seems that if you want to match your speakers RMS / continous power rating with a Behringer amplifier power rating, you should expect half of the declared power ratings.

    Therefore, the calculated parameters for Behringer KM 750 and Behringer KM 1700, based on published specifications are as follows:

    Behringer KM 750:

    Peak Power / channel @ 8 ohm: 200 W

    Peak voltage: SQRT (200 X 8) = 40 V

    RMS voltage: 40 X (1 / SQRT(2)) = 28.284 V

    Average continous power @ 8 ohm: SQR(28.284) / 8 = 100 W

    RMS current: 100 / 28.284 = 3.535 A

    Peak Power / channel @ 4 ohm: 400 W

    Peak voltage: SQRT (400 X 4) = 40 V

    RMS voltage: 40 X (1 / SQRT(2)) = 28.284 V

    Average continous power @ 4 ohm: SQR(28.284) / 4 = 200 W

    RMS current: 200 / 28.284 = 7.071 A

    Amplification factor for 0.775 V input sensitivity: 28.284 / 0.775 = 36.519

    Voltage gain for 0.775 V input sensitivity: 20 X LOG (36.519) = 31.250 dB

    Amplification factor for 1.4 V input sensitivity: 28.284 / 1.4 = 20.203

    Voltage gain for 1.4 V input sensitivity: 20 X LOG (20.203) = 26.108 dB

     Behringer KM 1700:

    Peak Power / channel @ 8 ohm: 500 W

    Peak voltage: SQRT (500 X 8) = 63.245 V

    RMS voltage: 63.245 X (1 / SQRT(2)) = 44.721 V

    Average continous power @ 8 ohm: SQR(44.721) / 8 = 250 W

    RMS current: 250 / 44.721 = 5.590 A

    Peak Power / channel @ 4 ohm: 800 W

    Peak voltage: SQRT (800 X 4) = 56.568 V

    RMS voltage: 56.568 X (1 / SQRT(2)) = 40 V

    Average continous power @ 4 ohm: SQR(40) / 4 = 400 W

    RMS current: 400 / 40 = 10 A

    Amplification factor for 0.775 V input sensitivity: 44.721 / 0.775 = 57.742

    Voltage gain for 0.775 V input sensitivity: 20 X LOG (36.519) = 35.229 dB

    Amplification factor for 1.4 V input sensitivity: 44.721 / 1.4 = 31.943

    Voltage gain for 1.4 V input sensitivity: 20 X LOG (31.943) = 30.087 dB

    read more...
    0 33
    • djtetei
      PedroRodrigues Hi djtetei, thank you for your post, In this case I would suggest to submit an assistance request directly to our Tech Support Team via the link below to clarify this matter: https://community.musictribe.com/pages/create-new-ticket?type=Technical%20Support&brand=Behringer Thank you
      • Jun 20
      • Behringer KM750 & KM1700 voltage gain specifications
        djtetei CAS-608741-G1P0W9, opened on 20.06.2022. Still waiting for an answer from your staff.
        • 1
        • ·
        • Jun 27
    • djtetei
      djtetei CAS-608741-G1P0W9, opened on 20.06.2022. Still waiting for an answer from your staff.
      • Jun 23
      • Behringer KM750 & KM1700 voltage gain specifications
        PedroRodrigues Hi djtetei, thank you for your post, please accept our apologies, this matter is being managed by one of our colleagues and we will reply ASAP. Thank you
        • Jun 29
    • djtetei
      djtetei Mr. Kyle Johnson from Behringer staff replied to CAS-608741-G1P0W9: "The 200W is the peak power not the RMS, the calculation should based on the RMS 130W for KM750 and 310W for KM1700. Also the peak power is actually about 210W."
      • Jul 1
  • New
    Shanemorey
    Newcomer - Level 1
    2022-06-18

    Blew an output (B) on the board and am looking for where to find a replacement board.

    0 8
  • New
    DjMajik528
    Newcomer - Level 1
    2022-06-14

    I purchased an 240v FP 20000Q amplifier. It arrived with a 120 v USA plug on the end of the power plug. How do I fix it. Is there an adapter, or can I have an electrician cut off the end and replace it with the correct one? Help!!! 

    0 6
    • DjMajik528
      NicJonesMT Hi DJMajik528.
      When you ordered the FP, was it from a store that is located in the same region as you?
      I would recommend getting back in touch with the store to see if they can Swap the unit out for one that is for the correct region.
      If the store can't assist, please click support at the top of the page and submit a technical support ticket.
      • Jun 15
  • New
    frsrwlkr
    Newcomer - Level 1
    2022-06-09

    Hi,

    I am having an issue with the Q-sys plugin not connecting to amplifiers.

    I can ping the amplifiers from from Qsys, however the plugin never connects.

    0 20
  • New
    shawnlishman
    Newcomer - Level 1
    2022-06-06

    I submitted a ticket on May 17th for an amp that should still be under warranty that needs repair.  Still no response.

    Ticket number : CAS-602097-K0F0Y8

    0 9
  • New
    nflorend
    Newcomer - Level 1
    2022-06-06

    My Bugera v5 needs repair. Now the 4th week since submitting a claim and no response but automated replies.

    Filed a complaint with Better Business Bureau.

    Department of Consumer Affairs is next.

    1 13
  • New
    darmstrong
    Newcomer - Level 1
    2022-06-01

    I just purchased a D10:4L and I can't for the life of me get 'into' it.  I loaded up the Cafe software, select the frame's IP, it gives me a message:

    "Incompatible firmware detected, 1 device(s) not added! Ensure that all devices have compatible firmware and try again"

    But how on earth do I update the firmware if the app to control the box won't load because the firmware is incompatible??

    There is no local web server on the amp.

     

    read more...
    0 15
    • darmstrong
      Dale_M Please can you submit a Technical ticket from the above Support tab so we can assist you.
      • Jun 2
      • Lab Gruppen D10:4L First timer
        darmstrong The answer is that I need to run Windows - which is a reprehensible solution. I'm stunned that the only way to interact with these amplifiers is through a Windows App - If I had known that I *never* would have purchased them.
        • Jun 2
  • New
    jamesheyser
    Newcomer - Level 1
    2022-06-01

    I purchased a used C28:4 unit a few months ago and I've had it out a couple of times without issues.

    Last weekend I fired up the system and line checked the monitors (which I power with it) and everything seemed in order. I was setting up mic stands when I heard a quiet "pop", not loud, but noticeable.

    Later on when I went to soundcheck the first act, the amp did not meter any signal coming to it on any channels. At first I thought it was a routing issue with my mixer, but when I put the cable to another amp it produced sound.

    Later in the day when I was telling another crew member about the amp, he said when the small pop happened he thought he smelled something electrical burning, but so subtle he couldn't be sure. 

    So clearly I'm not looking for a "solution", it needs a repair. But I wondered if anyone had any insight on what I might be up against. 

    read more...
    1 16
    • jamesheyser
      Dale_M If the smell of burnt out components has been noted it would be quicker to go to the above support tab and submit a technical ticket so we can assist with the warranty.
      • May 31
      • C28:4 powers up but no signal metered
        jamesheyser I don't have an "above support tab" (perhaps because I'm on a phone).

        I did reach out to the nearest service provider and they declined to give me an RMA because they said they were no parts available. But then they also said that I should reach out to Music tribe, which I also find a little confusing. Perhaps they have an easier time getting parts if the order is processed through music tribe?
        • Jun 13
  • New
    j0hn5c4t
    Newcomer - Level 1
    2022-05-21

    I have a

    Behringer V-Ampire LX1200H that needs knobs replaced.

    Do we have access to these type of parts?

    0 18
    • j0hn5c4t
      Nigel67 Hi j0hn5c4t. I am afraid that the LX1200H is a legacy product so it is unlikely that there are still spares around for it. You could try, by going to the nearest authorised service to you and asking there. here is a link to finding the closest service centre to you - https://www.behringer.com/buy.html?type=POS
      I do not have access to a full parts list, but from what I can see there are two types of knob, 9 of one and another with a red dot on it. I would however confirm that both parts are correct. All the best
      9 x W52-90500-28075
      1 x W52-20500-28076
      • May 22
  • New
    horimchang
    Newcomer - Level 1
    2022-05-20

    Our church owned 4 sets of IP2000. 3 of 4 sets has been shutting down at low volume level so they have to power recycle to restore its operation. Then, they wouls go down again after sometimes of operations.

    is anyone experiencing similar issue?

    I'd appreciate any comment or suggestions.

    justin.

    read more...
    0 21
    • horimchang
      NicJonesMT Hi Horimchang.
      Please click support at the top of the page and submit a technical support ticket.
      • May 21
    • horimchang
      kjkraus I am having the same problem The unit works fine for a few minutes then the column speakers completely cut out. The sub continues to work. Did you get a resolution to this?
      • Sep 1
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