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  • Krabbe
    Contributor - Level 1
    2019-11-05

    Hi 

    I've got a band with 7 member, who's considering buying a P16-system. Recently I stumbled upon the DP48-system, which, to me, seems more attractive than the P16-system.

    However, I'm interested in knowing if it is possible to daisy chain multiple DP48s and if so, how many units can be daisy chained?

    Fingers crossed that someone can help me out

    /Krabbe

     

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    0 1,157
    • Krabbe
      GaryHiggins

      @Krabbe Paul or Robert will know for sure but the units use aes50 and not an ultranet port, they have an in and a thru aes50 port and power is supplied using POE so I'm sure you can link "many". The ultranet port of the p16 with p16D's added could support I believe up to 64 p16M's? Anyway I'm sure at LEAST 4 could be linked, with each supporting 2 mixes-that would give 8 people mixes of their own. My guess is it would support many more, but I'm a guesser!


      https://www.midasconsoles.com/Categories/Midas/Signal-Processors/In-Ear-Monitoring/DP48/p/P0BMX#googtrans(en|en)


       

      • November 5, 2019
    • Krabbe
      KenMitchell

      I think it might also depend on what the functionality of the "yet-to-be-released" HUB4 is when it comes to the remote configuration and also the back-channeling of the mixes.  That could limit the number of DP48s in a chain. 

      • November 5, 2019
    • Krabbe
      GaryHiggins

      @KenMitchell The Hub4 kind of sounds like the dp48 equivalent of the P16D, I'm guessing (I do a lot of that) it takes an aes50 line, adds the POE component and supplies 4 dp48's which can each then pass on 1 via aes50 thru (they each have a thru)? As you said that bidirectional aes50 48 ch count makes things a bit sticky. Can't wait to find out! I'll get 10 or so to go with my new WING

      • November 5, 2019
    • Krabbe
      Paul_Vannatto

      Hi @Krabbe,


      I can provide some insight regarding this new personal mixer. Daisy chaining of the DP48 is done in a similar manner to the P16's in that each DP48 has input and thru AES50 ports and would require the included power adapter. The Hub4 provides POE on the AES50 to eliminate the need for the power adapter if the DP48 is connected directly to it (similar to the P16-D). 


       


      The Hub4 is a 1U form factor that provides for up to 4 DP48 as well as input and thru AES50 ports. But it also has a lot of routing flexibility in it. One of the features is that you can connect up to 8 stereo IEMs to the back of it, that are mixed from the connected DP48. Each DP48 can accommodate 1 or 2 musicians. 


       


      I've been beta testing these since the beginning of July with 9 tribute bands (from all over Ontario, Canada) and 9 local bands - and everyone loved them. One of the events was a Woodstock 50th Anniversary (Aug 16) that had 1 local band and 5 tribute bands in 9 hours. That allowed approximately 30 minutes between bands. As part of the transition, I had to set gains (only one band showed up for soundcheck), show everyone how to use their DP48's, change mic placement, etc. At the end of each set, I got rave reviews from each of the bands. That shows how user-friendly the DP48 can be - if the sound engineer is prepared to spend some time ahead of the event setting it all up (and the riders from the bands are up to date and accurate).


       


       

      • November 5, 2019
    • Krabbe
      GaryHiggins

      Hey Paul @Paul_Vannatto , so what is the real world limit to the number of DP48 units on a single mixer? Have they said? Can a stagebox be cascaded off (and back thru) a DP48 or Hub4? In other words if you use the DP48 on a port A or B of a mixer, is that port more or less used up or can other things still be connected? Also the aes50 assignments, are you "stuck" with the ch assignments used on a port (A or B) elsewhere for the available DP48 ch's? For instance say I use out 1-8, out 9-16 for mixbuses and foh and have 17-24 set for say aux1-6/M and then say card 1-8 for 25-32 and p16 for the rest. Are these then then also aes50 ch choices for the DP48? If so it would seem then that one might be better off keeping one port exclusively for the DP48's and use the other port for other mixers and stageboxes?

      • November 5, 2019
  • DavidC3Av
    Contributor - Level 2
    2019-08-24

    Could someone pls advise about whether it is possible to connect Behringer P16 to DL153. We have MIDAS M32R and DL153 stage box. P16 works fine off the mixer desk M32 Ultranet port, but the DL153 manual is silent about whether the DL153 Ethernet Control can send Ultranet. Is this possible or are we going to have to run a separate RJ44/Cat5 cable from the M32 to the stage for Ultranet? If DL153 cannot run Ultranet, what is the cheapest alternative to running an additional Cat5 cable to provide Ultranet connectivity on stage? Thanks in advance, David. 

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    0 816
    • DavidC3Av
      DaveMorrison

      Hi @DavidC3Av 


      No. Ultranet is neither AES50 or Ethernet. The DL153 doesn't have ultranet capability. The Midas DL 32 & 16 and Behringer S32, S16, SD16, SD8 all can do ultranet because they have the proper chipsets. Channels 33-48 on the AES50 bus are then routed by the stageboxes to the ultranet ports. Theoretically it might be possible to send signal to a SD8 and then daisy-chain to the DL153. Maybe someone on the forum has done it.

      • August 24, 2019
    • DavidC3Av
      DavidC3Av

      Thank you Dave, much appreciated. Looks like an elegant solution, and low enough cost to order and give it a shot next Sunday. Do you think it might be possible to daisy chain the SD8 after the DL153? Ie. even though DL153 doesn’t have Ultranet chipset that it is likely to faithfully pass on whatever protocol is happening on the AES50 for the SD8 to put out the Ultranet? Thanks again.

      • August 24, 2019
    • DavidC3Av
      GaryHiggins

      @DavidC3Av AFAIK you can't daisy chain any of the midas "blue" series stageboxes. The second aes50 port on those is redundant meaning if one fails the other will keep working when connected to a Midas Pro series mixer. It's not an in/thru type line. When using with the X32/M32 series mixers, it can be used on one aes50 port and nothing can be daisy chained beyond it on that line, In that regard they become somewhat limited. However your SD8/16/32's can be used on the other remaining X32 aes50  port and daisy chained normally up to the 48 ch limit.

      • August 24, 2019
    • DavidC3Av
      DavidC3Av @GaryHiggins thank you. Would inserting the SD8 before the DL153 on that AES50 work?
      • August 24, 2019
    • DavidC3Av
      GaryHiggins

      It may, I am not sure, I would wonder how/if the S/SD boxes can pass forward the ch's of the DL153 box properly to the mixer due to the ch shift they normally impose and implement with regard to each other. You might not achieve proper sync. I might guess no but it's just a guess. @ChaseMcKnight would be the guy here who would know for sure.


       


      @RexBeckettsorry did not see your post before writting my response...


       

      • August 24, 2019
  • JuKay311
    Newcomer - Level 2
    2020-08-23

    I have connected my new P16-M via the Ethernet-Cable to one of the four ULTRANTE-Ports on the SD16 Stagebox. The P16-M worked fine (PoE) an I was able to here "something". When I tried to change the routing in the X-32  int P16  (or now utlranet) Side  nothing happen/changed.    I resettet the P16-M , but same Problem.  The I wired it directly to the X-32 (I had to use the wallplug of the P16-M becuase there was no PoE on the UTLRANET-Port of the X-32) everything works well.   Has anybody the same Problem?  Did I something wrong in the routing of the SD-16 ?   

    Thanks for any ideas. 

     

    Uli

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    0 581
    • JuKay311
      RexBeckett The Ultranet ports on the SD16 are defined by the AES50 routing 33-48. If this is set to Ultranet 1-16, the outputs will be the same as those set for the console (on the Ultranet tab).
      • August 23, 2020
      • P16-m not getting setup (Routing) form the X32-Rack over  SD16
        JuKay311 Wow. THANK YOU, Rex! Made my day!
        • August 23, 2020
    • JuKay311
      GaryHiggins If you changed your aes50a out 33-48 assignments to something else besides P16 1-8 and P16 9-16 they will output differently than what is sent from the desk ultranet port. Default routing is what Rex showed you above and they should output the same things from both places when routed as shown. The ultranet menu defines sources, aes50 33-48 (in this case) sends those P16 sources to a the SD16. The SD16 (like almost every stagebox) is fixed/hardwired to output aes50 33-48 from its ultranet ports. Whatever sources are assigned to aes50 33-48 will be output there-but it's not restricted to only P16 sources, as you can see from above, there are lots of possibilities one might assign, easy enough to even set some by mistake.
      • August 23, 2020
  • New
    Johnnyh64
    Newcomer - Level 1
    2021-07-02

    Want to purchase a Midas DP48 monitor system because our band uses the M32r.  However, personally I also own a Behringer XR18 that uses Ultranet instead of AES.  I see in the marketing info that it says that the DP48 works with all Midas and Behringer digital mixers, being that the XR18 is a Behringer digital mixer, I wonder if this is true.  Does anybody have a definite answer to this question as I'd love to use the DP48 with my Behringer XR18 as well.  Thank you!

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    • Johnnyh64
      Paul_Vannatto No the DP48 does not work with the X-Air or M-Air consoles, since they do not have the AES50 (which the DP48 requires)
      • July 2, 2021
  • New
    AndyLanham
    Newcomer - Level 1
    2021-06-17

    I am trying to put effects into my vocal mics on my P16 in ear system. There doesn't seem to be a way to do it as a mix with channel out. Any help would be appreciated.

    1 470
    • AndyLanham
      Paul_Vannatto Hi Andy, which console are you using with the P16? Instructions for sending FX to P16 differs between consoles.
      • June 17, 2021
      • p16 effects
        DanO1963 Paul, I have the same question basically. Im using an X18 mixer, and 5 of the P16M, so I really have 2 questions. 1 can I get effects in the P16? secondly which is really a FOH effects question. What are the best effects to use p
        • August 21, 2021
      • p16 effects
        DanO1963 And what are the effect settings?
        • August 21, 2021
    • AndyLanham
      AndyLanham

      x32

      • June 18, 2021
    • AndyLanham
      Paul_Vannatto On the Routing, Ultranet (or P16) screen, assign the appropriate FX return, such as the FX1L and FX1R for the first FX return (wet signal).
      • June 19, 2021
      • p16 effects
        AndyLanham yes but that makes it all effects with no main and doesnt sound good. delays have a mix option but not halls or chamber reverbs.
        • June 19, 2021
      • p16 effects
        AndyLanham thanks for responding btw
        • June 19, 2021
    • AndyLanham
      Paul_Vannatto You could setup one of the FX slots just for the P16, simply by disabling the FX return, Main LR. That way you can send to that FX the way you want it to sound in the P16.

      Yes that is correct that all reverbs do not have mix options in the X-Air/M-Air as well as the X32/M32.
      • June 19, 2021
  • kevonavitch
    Contributor - Level 1
    2020-07-23

    Hi,

    I have a few MIDAS DP48s for the band members. Running them from X32/M32 mixers. Been able to import group names and manually program groups. But I have not been able to figure out how to use the Auto Assign by group or color features. Do you need a HUB4 to use this capability?

    Also, I found an AES50 Group name assignment feature in the Library section of the X32-Edit software. I can input the information there but don't know how to push it out to the DP48. Does it also require a HUB4 to allow this feature to work?

    Thanks!

    Kevin

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    0 426
    • kevonavitch
      Paul_Vannatto Hi Kevin,

      Are you getting the channel names and colors in the DP48 via AES50? If so the auto assign by color should work (based on those channel colors). I haven't used that feature for over a year now.

      The AES50 section of the library should work (as long as you are using X32 firmware 4.02 and DP48 firmware 1.4). You need to put the DP48 in slave mode (in the Setup). Then in the AES50 library (of X32) select broadcast to A or B (depending on which AES50 port you are using for the DP48)
      • July 22, 2020
    • kevonavitch
      kevonavitch Thanks, Paul. I really appreciate the quick answer. I had firmware 4.01 on the M32C and the new 1.5 on the DP48. Update the first. My issue might have been that I forgot to turn on the internal clock on the M32C (usually it is slaved to the X32 as a monitor mixer). I was able to get it to both pick up the auto assign and the library broadcast features. Worked beautifully!

      I had another question about where to tap the signal but I'll start another thread to create a separate headline.
      • July 24, 2020
      • MIDAS DP48 Auto Assign Groups by Name/Color
        Paul_Vannatto Ah yes, 4.01 had issues. Updating to 4.02 will help. Glad to hear you got it working. I'll watch for your other thread.
        • 1
        • ·
        • July 24, 2020
      • MIDAS DP48 Auto Assign Groups by Name/Color
        kevonavitch Another thought came to mind. When I first tried it, it was from my X32. But I had the DP48 daisy-chained after our SD16 stage box. Does the stage box potential strip out the channel messages from the X32. I think I recall reading that the DP48 should be wired first (which seems risky). And if that is the necessary to allow the channel messages to reach the DP48, how much latency would each box add to the signal in the chain (we have 3)?

        Sorry for all the questions! I'm finding it hard to get clear answers online since the product is so new.
        • July 24, 2020
      • MIDAS DP48 Auto Assign Groups by Name/Color
        kevonavitch I'm back in the practice room testing. It seems the stage boxes are the problem. When I put the AES50 directly in to the DP48, the broadcast works. With my two SD16s in between, the message does not reach. I notice the latest DP48 firmware talks about allowing name commands to go through stage boxes (I have 1.5 installed). I suspect I may have to update the firmware for the SD16s. Will give that a try and report back.

        Thanks again for your help, Paul.
        • July 25, 2020
  • RalphHopstaken
    Contributor - Level 3
    2020-03-11

    I was curious if it is possible to use a Lan power injector to supply power into the AES50 to the DP48. I did use it with the P16 and that worked perfectly.

    it wil be used to put the original DP48 power supply in the flightcase where all the monitor stuff is in and only use the cat5 aes50 to the DP48

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    • RalphHopstaken
      GaryHiggins

      @RalphHopstaken 


      Hello, I can't answer your question but was curious as to which injector you used for p16? I had toyed with this idea but never tried any.

      • March 10, 2020
    • RalphHopstaken
      RexBeckett

      @RalphHopstaken 


      According to the specifications, the DP48 PoE conforms to IEEE802.3af so it should run from an injector that meets the same standard.


      DP48.PNG

      • March 10, 2020
    • RalphHopstaken
      RalphHopstaken

      @GaryHiggins  you can use every power injector as long it has the same power input connector live the original power supply from the p16. I use something like on the picture below


       


      poe power injector.jpg


       


       

      • March 11, 2020
    • RalphHopstaken
      Paul_Vannatto

      @RalphHopstaken I would not recommend using a POE injector as shown for the DP48, since it would require the removal of the ethercon shells from the ends of the AES50 cables. 

      • March 11, 2020
    • RalphHopstaken
      RalphHopstaken

      @Paul_Vannatto you can't use that power injector for the PD48 because those are only 100mbit/sec but for the P16 they work great. for what you sy about the shield insite the m32 or DP48 the schield ends on the shassis so after that there is no connectionif you use cat 6 there is enough shielding and i use only max 10 meter of cable and only to one DP48

      • March 13, 2020
  • staceyhainey
    Contributor - Level 3
    2019-06-07

    Just a general question,,,,

    My band just purchased an M32C with the DL32, and PM16’s for monitoring 

    i split the vocal, and instruments into mix busses, and sent the busses to ultra net, but it seems like we aren’t getting the full signal (some busses seem absent on the pm16)   We do have something that kind of works, but there’s gotta be a better way 

    will post a screen shot of the routing pages

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    • staceyhainey
    • staceyhainey
      RexBeckett


      @staceyhainey wrote:


      Just a general question,,,,


      My band just purchased an M32C with the DL32, and PM16’s for monitoring 


      i split the vocal, and instruments into mix busses, and sent the busses to ultra net, but it seems like we aren’t getting the full signal (some busses seem absent on the pm16)   We do have something that kind of works, but there’s gotta be a better way  


      will post a screen shot of the routing pages





      @staceyhainey 


      Where are you connecting the P16Ms - to the M32C or the DL32? If the DL32, you need to open Routing -> AES50 A/B and select AES50-A 33-40 = Ultranet 1-8 and  AES50-A 41-48 = Ultranet 9-16. This will send the 16 Ultranet outputs to the DL32 on AES50-A 33-48 which are routed to the P16 socket.  


       

      • June 7, 2019
  • New
    aurasystems
    Newcomer - Level 1
    2021-01-25

    Howdy, 

    I've got 9x P16-M's and they all of the same issue.  Every single knob & button is sticky.  

    Whatever coating was used to finish the knobs and buttons has degraded.  Now you cannot use them without getting goo all over your finger tips.  It reminds me of my old Sony car stereo remote. 

    Anyways, I tried summoning the interweb to see if I could find replacement knobs, but I didn't have any luck.  I also tried Behringer.com.

    Aside from using Goo-gone and some elbow grease, I don't know what else to do.  Plus, I would rather not spend a lot or time cleaning them. 

    Thanks!

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  • BillFleming
    Contributor - Level 2
    2020-04-17

    Hello,

    Up until recently we have been running a single P16D distributor to send audio over PoE to our P16Ms; we have the P16D connected into a Midas DL16 stagebox which then connects into a Midas M32 console.

    We recently expanded our stage setup by adding a 2nd DL16 and have installed two wall mounted racks - the racks are located on each side of the stage and each contains one of the DL16s. We would like to add a 2nd P16D so one is located in each rack. The question is can a 2nd P16D be plugged into the Ultranet port on the 2nd DL16 just as the first P16D is plugged into the first DL16? If so are there any configuration settings that need to be tweaked on the M32 to get this to work?

    Thanks, Bill

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    0 312
    • BillFleming
      GaryHiggins

      @BillFleming 


       


      Hello, should work just fine as long as your aes50 a and b 33-48 are set for p16 1-16-assuming they are on different ports. No issues at all if daisy chained as both carry the same assignment.


       


      Aes50 33-48 is what the ultranet ports of a DL/S16 are fixed at. Default settings for aes50a/b 33-48 on an M/X32 are p16 1-8 and p16 9-16. IF you change either routing group to be something else other than p16, that will be what is carried by that particular DL16's ultranet port. That ability can also be your friend should you WANT different sources on either one....or drive you mad if you don't and wonder why.

      • April 16, 2020
    • BillFleming
      BillFleming

      Thanks Gary, I think I follow.


      You said  "No issues at all if daisy chained as both carry the same assignment." I have both DL16s running off of AES-A which I would also call daisy-chained. I just want to make sure we're on the same page because I work on the board fairly infrequently and the routing interface makes a little more sense to me than it first did a year and a half ago but nonetheless it's still a bit of a mystery. I would love to see a video on M32 routing where it is explained in great detail but also starts out at a high level and is not over in under five minutes - the Midas videos are very good but routing at least in the IT world can be a complex topic in and of itself.


      Once we get the 2nd P16D and plug it in I should be able to get it going. I'm pretty sure our Ultranet ports are still set to their defaults 1-8 and 9-16. I have to head back to the church next week to spin up some Ethernet connections so will check then. I do have a 2nd question regarding how the input port numbers were shifted after I added the 2nd DL16, but I'll start a 2nd thread for that one in case I can't find the answer elsewhere.


      Thanks again. 

      • April 17, 2020
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