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  • allesbl
    Contributor - Level 2
    2020-02-10

    Hi,

    I don't know if this is the right place to report bugs, but I'll place my post here. Hopefully it will be read by someone responsible for MR18 maintenance and support.

    One month ago I bought MR18 mixer and updated the firmware to latest 1.17 version. Then during tests I found out that the unit can produce a very loud squeal on Main LR output and any Bus 1-6 output after powering it up. As I found later, it was already mentioned in this forum here:

    https://community.musictribe.com/t5/Recording/MR18-Power-On-Start-Up-Noise/td-p/185693

    and here:

    https://community.musictribe.com/t5/Recording/Loud-squeal-after-powering-up-MR18/td-p/180023

    The squeal sound from my MR18 sounds exactly the same as the one posted by Jay Haynes in the first thread.

    This was posted in 2017 and I wonder it is not fixed yet, because the mixer can become really dangerous when power is unexpectedly interrupted and then restored - not only blasting the PA loudspeakers at Main LR, but with in-ears connected to Bus 1-6 it may cause serious hearing damage!!!

    Sorry, but such behaviour of a professional, even Midas-branded product is simply unacceptable, regardless as much as the product is low-priced. Competitor products such as Mackie DL32R don't do this - on power up and after an initial silent period it simply starts to pass audio with last settings applied. No glitches,
    no pops.

    Please, don't state now "you should turn on the mixer first and speakers last". Although this is of course fully true, in a real life with real fallible people it cannot be always fulfilled under all circumstances. An unexpected short power dropout with MR18 is enough to cause big problems, e.g. someone pulls out by mistake the power cord from the socket and then puts it back again.

    Workaround with "Mute at power on" setup option is insufficient. It relies on a user action and therefore is not always guaranteed, despite the sentence in manual "Engage the 'Mute at Power On' to avoid pops during start up." Not to mention, there is no hint of how loud the MR18 "pops" can be. Under "pops" I understand loud but very short signal bursts which can be unpleasant, but mostly not destructive. However, the mixer produces maybe 0.5 sec long squeal signal with wide spectrum and full scale amplitude which totally overdrives anything connected to the outputs.
    Often it could be also required that the device resumes operation after power cycling with last settings applied and without any user intervention. In this case "Mute at power on" option cannot be used.

    Nevertheless, not only to complain, but to be a bit constructive too - with my MR18 I could observe following behaviour:

    - the squeal sound comes from any input channel (1-16, line 17-18) to any Bus 1-6 and/or Main LR output when channel bus sends and/or channel fader are turned up. Bus and main masters are set permanently to 0dB. Squeal to buses comes from all possible tap point selections.

    - the squeal sound comes only from input channels which have a physical input patched. If the channel is not patched (OFF in the routing table) or USB is selected as source, then the squeal sound doesn't appear. Also effect returns don't produce squeal sound, supposed effect sends on all inputs are all the way turned down.

    - the squeal sound doesn't come out of Phones output. There seems to be some automatic muting during power up - phones output is quiet until the squeal on main/bus outputs fades away and then starts to play normally.

    So this would definitely point to an issue with A/D converters / preamps during initialization.

    Such kind of issue can be for sure fixed by a firmware update. If the root cause cannot be solved easily, please apply to all outputs at least automatic muting immediately on boot up, as a first step of the initialization sequence, and automatic unmuting just only after the initialization has been completed and the squeal already faded away. Automatic unmute would take place conditionally depending on the "Mute at power on" setting: TRUE = leave outputs muted until user intervention (same as now), FALSE = unmute automatically after squeal is gone.
    Or maybe a different approach: temporarily reset the routing table at startup so that all channels are not patched and restore it only just after the A/D and preamps have settled properly.
    Adding such relatively simple functionality to next firmware update may well improve the user experience of this - so far working good - product.

    Many thanks in advance!

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    • allesbl
      GaryHiggins

      @allesbl In setup, audio/midi "mute output at power cycle" needs to have a check mark in the box.


      z.PNG.

      • February 10, 2020
    • allesbl
      Paul_Vannatto

      Hi Ales @allesbl 


      Welcome to the forum. I can assure you that this "squeal" is not due to a bug in the firmware, or it would be happening to many of us users. As far as I remember, those 2 threads were the only reports of this issue, and we were unable to replicate the problem ourselves. If you notice that in both cases, the user(s) did not provide a scene file for us to check. I would suggest that you export your scene to a file (using M-Air-Edit for PC, Mac or linux) and attach it to your next post (Choose File below). Then we can have a look and see if we can determine the source of the squeal.


       

      • February 10, 2020
    • allesbl
      allesbl

      Hi Paul,


      thank you for welcome and your quick reaction. Enclosed you can find a .scn file with the setting which produces the squeal on my MR18. Basically, it is a factory default routing with my personal EQ, gate and compressor settings for a small band as a start point for sound check. Channel 14 has the fader and bus sends turned up which is the path for "squeal" to all outputs. If you load this scene into the mixer, wait some time to store it into inernal memory, switch the mixer off and then switch it on back again, you should get the "squeal" on all bus/main outputs during startup - providing that "mute at power on" is not set, I don't know if this is stored in the scene too. If you unpatch the channel 14 to OFF or set the source to USB, then the disturbing sound will not come at next startup. If you repeat this settings on any other input channel 1-16, 17-18, you should get the same result at next power up.


      My unit has serial number S190700210C8H. From my point of view this is definitely a bug. I discovered it randomly, because I'm used to test everything properly before real use, including such "abnormal operation" like power cycling with open loudspeakers and in-ears. Hopefully the attached file will help you to replicate the squeal sound at startup.


       

      ch14-patched-in14_squeal.scn
      • February 10, 2020
    • allesbl
      Paul_Vannatto

      Hi Ales @allesbl ,


      Thanks for the scene file. I was able to replicate the issue and that was definitely not a squeal. It was more like a synthesizer noise. To be honest, that is the very first time I've heard that come out of the MR18 (or XR18 or X32) in all the years (and many events) that I've done sound with these digital mixers. Granted the norm is to hook everything up, turn on the console, then go around and turn on all of the powered speakers (and do the opposite at the end of the event). But occasionally I do find a powered speaker already on (because someone forgot to turn it off at teardown of last event). 


       


      I do have to admit that you did indeed find a bug. But you have to understand that since no one has provided a scene file to replicate it, it was very difficult to investigate the "bug". Add to that, the  majority of issues we encounter here on the forum are user setting related. We did have a similar scenario with a user with a bizarre EQ settings (on the GEQ) on his X32. With his scene file we were able to replicate it and I sent it off to the developers - and they found the bug. 


       


      I did load one of my good known scenes over top of yours and tried it and got a similar noise. So I initialized the console, then loaded my good known scene and there was a minor pop (expected when you have the powered speaker on before turning on the console), but did not get your (weird) noise. So it is definitely a combination of settings in your scene that is producing this output.


       


      I will inform the developers of this and link your explanation and scene file for an investigation.


       

      • February 10, 2020
  • stasta32
    Contributor - Level 1
    2020-02-09

    It seems all efx  in the MR18 are efx return post fader ...meaning if you set efx levels in the monitors and then you drop the master efx return of the house mix it will drop the efx volume in the monitors.  Is there anyway to get the efx prefader in the monitors so I have the ability to rise and drop volume of efx in house without changing its level in monitors?

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    • stasta32
      RexBeckett

      @stasta32 


      Hello Anthony, welcome to the community.


       


      Using FX in monitor mixes is always going to be a compromise. The FX Sends from channels are usually post-fader so that they track the dry levels in the main mix. Channel sends to monitor buses are usually pre-fader. So when you add FX Returns to a monitor mix you are dealing with both pre and post fader elements.


       


      You can make the FX send to a monitor mix independent of the FX Return fader for the main mix however. Just use pre-fader signal taps for the FX Return Sends to the monitor mixes:


      FX Return, SendsFX Return, Sends

      • February 9, 2020
  • ghost56
    Contributor - Level 3
    2020-02-08

    Hi

    let me explain a bit about myself, last july i knew absoloutely nothing about mixing desks, daws, vsts,trackers,chainers midside recording techniques,ambient recording,spot miking and everything else that studio engineers do.

    Since August i have had to learn quite a lot midas m32,midas m32r,yamaha dm2000,yamaha dm100

    a lot of the stuff i have mentioned i can buy a book and read about it but mixing desks are different you need to practise practise then practise some more, only problem i cant afford a mixing desk for my home soi saw the m32 edit software (i also saw berhinger x32 edit) and it looked like a good way to get to know the desk outside college, my problem is it does not look like any of the videos ive seen.

    So any info would be appreciated ( i have a head like a bag of ferrets wearing work boots most days)

    Reg

    Me

     

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    • ghost56
      Paul_Vannatto

      Hi Ian @ghost56 


      Welcome to the forum. The reason you are seeing an app (M32-Edit and X32-Edit) that looks almost identical to the console display is because those videos are quite old. The original app interface did indeed emulate the console display. The abandoned that interface for this new one about 3 years ago (M32-Edit 2.5 was the last version of the old interface). 


       


      There is nothing wrong with the new interface and most of us have adapted to using it and it has all of the new features that the old one won't have.


       

      • February 8, 2020
    • ghost56
      ghost56

      Hi Paul


      thanks for your input I will probably use this software further down the line. But for me if i can have somthing that  resembles the actual desk i am learing on and will work offline then I am a happy bunny.


      The main object of using the old software would be offline and educational, just to let me keep the layout of the board in my head and practise making scenes.


      So i will search for a legacy download or simply ask midas/behringer if they could provide me a copy.


      Thanks to yourself and anyone else who replied to my post. I have tried to leave you kudos but dont know if the button works.


      Reg


      Ian

      • February 8, 2020
    • ghost56
      Paul_Vannatto

      Hi Ian @ghost56 


      What OS are you using (Windows, Mac, linux)? I have copies of the older interface and can provide. But I leave in an hour to do sound for a monthly (all day) jamboree.


       

      • February 8, 2020
    • ghost56
      ghost56

      Hi Paul ,


      hope you enjoy your day sounds fun, I am using windows xp sp3 32 bit or windows 7 64 bit, I usually keep my xp machine offline as i use it to run cantible lite and free vsts, still learning the ropes with this though so if you have the older edit for any of these mchines I would be grateful.


      But I have to ask if you would mind me sharing it with the rest of my college class if you say no its ok i wont do it.


      Also you may notice me being offline pretty quickly somtimes The laptops I use are pretty old and the batteries


      tend not to hold a charge (bit like myself these days).


      Reg


      Ian

      • February 8, 2020
    • ghost56
      KevinMaxwell


      @ghost56 wrote:


      Hi Paul ,


      hope you enjoy your day sounds fun, I am using windows xp sp3 32 bit or windows 7 64 bit, I usually keep my xp machine offline as i use it to run cantible lite and free vsts, still learning the ropes with this though so if you have the older edit for any of these mchines I would be grateful.


      But I have to ask if you would mind me sharing it with the rest of my college class if you say no its ok i wont do it.


      Also you may notice me being offline pretty quickly somtimes The laptops I use are pretty old and the batteries


      tend not to hold a charge (bit like myself these days).


      Reg


      Ian





      As Paul said the last version that looked like the console was V2.5 and I just recently sent that version to someone that had never used a digital console before. Because it is a good training tool. But as others have indicated there are incompatibilities between Edit V2.5 and the consoles running version 3 or 4 of the firmware.  If you didn’t get V2.5 from Paul please PM me your email address and I will send it to you. There should be no reason not to freely share it with others because it is a training tool. It isn’t like it is of any use but to learn how the mixer works. Just be sure to tell them not to use it with a console running the newer firmware. It will sort of work but you could get unexpected results. You can upload a scene built with version 2.5 of the edit program but into a console running a newer firmware and it will work.

      • February 9, 2020
  • ghost56
    Contributor - Level 3
    2020-02-08

    hi

     newbie here, everywhere i look people have the m32 edit looking like a mixing desk.

    my question is  how do they do it do you have to import a scene from the midas m32 desk to make it look like this.

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    • ghost56
      DaveMorrison

      @ghost56 


      The old versions of M32-Edit had this interface. The newer versions have a different layout and that's what you are seeing. While the old versions look like the hardware, they're not useful when connecting to your mixer with version 3 or 4 firmware. 

      • February 8, 2020
    • ghost56
      KevinMaxwell


      @ghost56 wrote:


      hi


       newbie here, everywhere i look people have the m32 edit looking like a mixing desk.


      my question is  how do they do it do you have to import a scene from the midas m32 desk to make it look like this.





      The last version that looked like the console was V2.5 and I just recently sent that version to someone that had never used a digital console before. Because it is a good training tool. But as Dave indicated there are incompatibilities as between Edit V2.5 and the consoles running version 3 or 4 of the firmware. 

      • February 9, 2020
  • PatrickGMaillot
    Valued Contributor - Level 2
    2020-02-08
    Using a Stream Deck device with X32ReaperAutoMate! V1.006 will soon be available for users of the licensed version and include support for this. X32XLiveAutoMate is already compatible as of V1.002. See it at https://youtu.be/sQ8MwkfGUdg -Patrick
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  • KingstonCole
    Contributor - Level 2
    2020-02-04

    Hey, guys, I'm doing a science fair project on creating a digital stethoscope, where I insert a microphone by the head of the stethoscope and then seal it off (so the continuous column of sound is preserved). The microphone then picks up the sound from the stethoscope head and transmits it to my computer through the 3.5mm headphone jack.

    Do you guys have any idea what things I would test as part of my experiment design, I want to compare 3 designs but I am not sure what criteria I should use to find which design is best? Any suggestions?, I was thinking like lowest frequency, highest amplitude

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  • KingstonCole
    Contributor - Level 2
    2020-02-04

    In my studio, I have a large audio interface and mix with software. I feel that my options are pretty limitless this way, and I can really dial in thick effects and complex audio routes. I write electronic music, and being able to lay on effects really thick to where they're bordeTweakbox  rline part of the instrument Appvalley is important to me.

    When I think of a mixing console, I think simple "send/return" effect routes and basic EQs. If I wanted to (as an example) add a few effects to a channel, split it to two channels for effects on the high and low https://vlc.onl/  frequencies, then combine them on another channel with a compressor, I see this as borderline impossibility with a console.

    However, you can probably tell that I'm really out of the loop. There has to be a reason why every professional recording studio has a console. Is it the hands-on approach? Are the mixes simpler? What am I missing?

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    • KingstonCole
      Paul_Vannatto


      @KingstonCole wrote:


      When I think of a mixing console, I think simple "send/return" effect routes and basic EQs. If I wanted to (as an example) add a few effects to a channel, split it to two channels for effects on the high and low frequencies, then combine them on another channel with a compressor, I see this as borderline impossibility with a console.


      However, you can probably tell that I'm really out of the loop. 





      I would say most definitely to your question. Have a look at one of the introductory level digital consoles - the XR18. It can do what you describe and a lot more. Then have a look at the X32, the Wing, etc. 


       




      There has to be a reason why every professional recording studio has a console. 



      The biggest reason is that you have to have an interface that can convert physical inputs (mic, instrument, etc.) to digital and the final digital output to physical outputs (analog). Modern digital consoles have dropped in price to the point that the cost difference to dedicated I/O interfaces has narrowed significantly. Mixing within the console (for FOH and monitor mixes) results in lower latency than if done in a DAW. Add to all of that, many prefer the touch and sight of physical faders, knobs, etc.

      • February 4, 2020
    • KingstonCole
      PatrickGMaillot My humble opinion on this is most people are much at ease with their hands/fingers on direct controls (faders, knobs, encoders), than clicking on a mouse for performing the same operations. Furthermore you have two hands, and can easily control several faders at once using your hands. Pretty much impossible with a mouse, unless you 'prepare' your move ahead of time. That's one of the nice things in using the X32 as a control surface with REAPER or XLive in the programs I wrote, either to just control REAPER' state [X32Reaper], or to perform full mixes [X32ReaperAutoMate & X32XLiveAutoMate]. With the latter two, the X32 is really used at its best, using the desk as a control surface and its audio engine for recording. Automation being performed in realtime, and all changes can be saved/recalled, even going back and forth between REAPER and XLive audio. -Patrick
      • February 4, 2020
    • KingstonCole
      AntoniPal

      Dear @KingstonCole,


      I'd say it's nothing wrong with mixing just in a box - it's just a matter of Your preferences. However, ... 

      Console gives You a bit more of flexibility to adapt to sessions demands - especially in the tracking process.
      Once it can be track-by-track, then it could be 20-by-80, and so on, and on, and on. 


      In case You do have a several (or at least two) performers playing together they might want to hear themselves, and track's coming from DAW. Due to the nature of DAWs and sound devices drivers some latency is always inducted. In general, hardware solutions - as consoles - are way more efficient regarding latency. 
      A perfect solution for small studio could be an X/M32 with P16, or DP48 system to satisfy not only tracking itself, but also monitoring. You can configure clean signals go directly to Your DAW, and whole processing for monitoring purposes can be done in the console. 
      Afterwards, whole mixing can be done on clean tracks in-the-box. 
      That usually works for me. 


      Hope that helps. Reach me out if You'd have some more questions. 

      • February 13, 2020
  • one2one
    Contributor - Level 1
    2020-02-04

    Hey fellow tech heads i need some help. Recently purchased a Midas DP48 and am trying to connect it to the Midas Pro 1. any ideas on how to do it. thanks in advance

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    • one2one
      Paul_Vannatto

      Hi James @one2one 


      Welcome to the forum. You should be able to connect the DP48 to one of the AES50 ports of the Pro 1. Since the Pro 1 has a 96Khz clock rate, that would mean that the DP48 would only be able to access 24 channels instead of the 48 channels (at 44/48Khz clock rate).


       


      There is no DP48 support on the Pro 1 for group names and assignments, like on the M32. You will need to do that on the DP48 itself. To create the group names, you will need to create a file called names.csv. In it should be one line of comma delimited names, for example


      Gtr1Vox,Gtr2Vox,DrumVox,None,Gtr1,Gtr2,Bass,None,KickIn,DrumMix,None,TB


      and save that file in the DP48 folder in the SD card. Finally insert the SD card into the DP48 and go to the Setup, Group Names to load them in.


       


       

      • February 3, 2020
    • one2one
      one2one

      hello again, followed your steps but still getting nothing on the DP48. currently though the "in" symbol on the DP48 is switching between red and green and still cant get any audio out of it. is that a DP48 problem or a Pro1 problem. 


      thanks in advance

      • February 6, 2020
  • lysterj
    Contributor - Level 1
    2020-02-03

    I'm not sure where to report it, so I'll try here - I've found a bug (pretty dramatically, during a show) in firmware 4.02.  

    Using the new block User Input patch in 4.02, and a channel safed, head amp gain is not retained during a scene recall.  All other channel parameters appear to correctly retain their values.  I've tried changing scenes with input patch set to Local, and AES50, and the channel safe behaves as expected (input gain stays put).  But with User Input patches, gain is not sticking.

    Using a DL32 head box on AES50a, if that matters.

    Hopefully it can be fixed in the next update.  

     

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  • KingstonCole
    Contributor - Level 2
    2020-02-03

    Hey there, I apologize for this question which is probably stupid but I've crossed a problem that I can't seem to solve with Google-fu. I have the Blue Yeticaster. (Blue Yeti mic, Rahttps://scrabblewordfinder.vip/ dius shock mount, and Compass boom arm.)

    I intend to replace the Yeti and Radius with an XLR mic down the road but that isn't what I'm here for.

    I want to find a way to mount one of those box mic flags between the Compass and the shock mount in a way that would work now or when I upgrade since I intend to use the Comphttps://www.applock.ooo/ ass either way. The way you see them do it in radio studios and what not. The boom arm isn't long enough to do it out of box.

    Is there an extension I can buy to put between the two? What would it be called?

    Hope I'm not being to vague or confusing.

    Thanks in advance!

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