Midas

Midas

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Midas

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  • DwayneAasberg
    Super Contributor - Level 1
    2020-03-01

    Hello all,

    Our church is considering a DL16 as part of a headphone amp IEM solution for our sanctuary.  We currently employ an M32 in the sanctuary.  The M32 has been upgraded to FW 4.02.

    I am trying to learn about AES50 maps the I/O and how the I/O on a DL16 could be employed on our M32 (together with the existing hard-wired inputs to the console).  Our goal would be to maintain and expand our existing flexibility.

    If I appear cryptic in description of our installation its only because I don't want to write a tome here.  I really am looking for some good reading about M32/DL16 AES50 mapping so I figure it out for myself.

    As always, thanks in advance for your assistance.
    Dwayne A

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    • DwayneAasberg
      RexBeckett

      @DwayneAasberg 


      I don't know of any written guides to AES50 routing but there are numerous worked examples in forum posts. The concepts are straightforward:


       


      Inputs from a single DL16 will usually be on AES50 lines 1-16. These can be selected as sources in Routing, Inputs - in blocks of eight. The new User In patchpoints in V4.xx allow the blocks to be defined with individual inputs if required. When selected in Routing, Inputs, the AES50 sources are routed to the channels.


       


      Outputs on a single DL16 will normally be sent on AES50 lines 1-8. These can be set on Routing, AES50 in blocks of eight. The User Out patch can be used to build the blocks from individual output sources if required. Outputs can be driven from many possible sources: Inputs from other stageboxes; local inputs; inputs from USB/SD cards. Signals can also be staged in Out 1-16, Ultranet and Aux Out from sources including direct channel taps and Aux inputs. 


       


      Does that make enough sense to get started? If not, please ask questions.

      • March 1, 2020
    • DwayneAasberg
      DwayneAasberg

      Thx @RexBeckett 


      I'm afraid I am still quite confused.


       


      Considering inputs.  Currently ch1-32 are all gettting their signals from the XLRs on the back of the console.  If we connected a DL16 could we use 3 inputs of the DL16 on any channels we want in the set of 32 (replacing the connection from the back of the console)?  If yes, how?


       


      Next, considering outputs.  Currently, on the back of the console, outputs 1-8 are getting their signals from mixbus 1-8 and outputs 13-16 are getting their signals from matrix 1-4.  If we connected a DL16 could we use the 8 outputs on the DL16 and route them from any mixbus we desire?  If yes, how?  Then if yes, would the routing replace the output to the XLR on the back of the console, or can we have a mixbus go to both the back XLR and the XLR on the DL16?


       


      Part of the challenge here is language and the apparent 'same-namedness' on the Routing screens.  The word 'input' appears on tabs Inputs and User In.  Then 'output' appears AES50XLROut1-16Out Delay and User Out.  


       


      Sorry if I'm making this more complicated that it needs be.  And thanks for your continued assistance.


      Dwayne A

      • March 1, 2020
    • DwayneAasberg
      RexBeckett

      @DwayneAasberg 


      It can be very confusing, Dwayne. It's the price we pay for the flexibility.


       


      Considering inputs. Currently ch1-32 are all gettting their signals from the XLRs on the back of the console. If we connected a DL16 could we use 3 inputs of the DL16 on any channels we want in the set of 32 (replacing the connection from the back of the console)? If yes, how?


      Yes, you can mix and match the console and stagebox inputs. This is most easily done using the new User In patching table. This allows the normal routing blocks (of eight signals) to be specified with individual signal sources. In the following example, channel input 6 is from stagebox input 1, channel 7 is from stagebox 2 and channel 12 is from stagebox 3. All other channel inputs are from the console local. I am using M32 Edit to illustrate the settings. You can make these settings directly on the console but it is not so clear.


      Routing, User InRouting, User In


      Now we have defined our User In blocks, we can select them as sources in the normal Routing -> Inputs tab:


      Routing, InputsRouting, Inputs


       


      Next, considering outputs.  Currently, on the back of the console, outputs 1-8 are getting their signals from mixbus 1-8 and outputs 13-16 are getting their signals from matrix 1-4.  If we connected a DL16 could we use the 8 outputs on the DL16 and route them from any mixbus we desire?  If yes, how?  Then if yes, would the routing replace the output to the XLR on the back of the console, or can we have a mixbus go to both the back XLR and the XLR on the DL16?


      Last things first, the outputs on the console and DL16 can be specified independently. They can share the same signal source if required. The signals routed to the outputs can be from Mixbuses, Matrix buses, inputs or channel taps. As with the XLR outputs, AES50 outputs are first staged from individual signals into blocks of eight. The staging is normally done on the Routing -> Out 1-16 tab. If this is fully occupied for the console outputs, the Routing -> Ultranet tab can be used as well. 


       


      In the following example we are using the Ultranet tab to stage outputs from four pairs of Mixbuses to the first block of eight:


      Routing, UltranetRouting, Ultranet


      Having done that, we can route that block to the AES50 to connect it to the DL16 outputs:


      Routing, AES50Routing, AES50


      The new User Out patching can be used, if required, to break free from the block-of-eight restrictions. 


       


      You are not making this complicated, Dwayne. It is complicated and by no means easy to understand. It does follow a certain logic, though. Once the penny drops, you may appreciate the power and flexibility of the M32/X32 routing capabilities.

      • March 1, 2020
    • DwayneAasberg
      DwayneAasberg

      Hi @RexBeckett 


      Okay, it took me a few reads and re-reads, then back and forth to Edit 32 and the console, but I think I may be figuring this out.  The 'input' between an XLR or AES50 connection, and the fader is really a pointer, not an input.  On the other end 'output' is a pointer between a mix bus and an XLR or AES50 connection.  This may not be entirely accurate but it seems to be working for my head.  Let me know if I am 100% in the rhubarb.


      Thx again.   D.

      • March 4, 2020
  • S-Audio
    Contributor - Level 2
    2020-03-01

    I am trying to use M32 edit with my M32rlive console but I can't get them to talk to each other.

    The software recognizes the console and the IP address match but when I highlight the console and hit connect nothing happens and it says disconnected. any help would be appreciated.

    Ron

    IMG_2156.JPG
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    • S-Audio
      RexBeckett

      @S-Audio 


      You need to change one of the IP addresses. They should be in the same subnet but cannot be the same address. e.g. Set the console to 192.168.0.32

      • February 29, 2020
    • S-Audio
      S-Audio

      I tried changing the IP address on the console as you suggested but still nothing.I didn't recognize the console like it did in the screen shot attached to my first post....

      • February 29, 2020
    • S-Audio
      RexBeckett


      @S-Audio wrote:


      I tried changing the IP address on the console as you suggested but still nothing.I didn't recognize the console like it did in the screen shot attached to my first post....





      @S-Audio 


      The screenshot shows that there are two active network ports on your PC and they are both in the same subnet. This can cause problems. If you disable or disconnect the Wifi port, the PC should be able to find the console. If you need to keep Wifi active, try changing both the PC LAN port and console to a different subnet e.g. 192.168.32.nnn

      • February 29, 2020
    • S-Audio
      S-Audio

      I tured oof WIFI and it found the console right away so that was the issue. Now I have this message poping up.


      My console firm ware is the latest version 4.2 and it say uncompatable. I can't win   Now what?


      See attached.

      IMG_2157.JPG
      • February 29, 2020
    • S-Audio
      S-Audio

      Sorry about the typo's. I have been trying to get this going for hours.

      • February 29, 2020
  • PatrickGMaillot
    Valued Contributor - Level 2
    2020-03-01

    MORE / NEW possibilities !! What's coming up in the next (2.0) releases of X32ReaperAutoMate and X32XLiveAutoMate applications?

    • - Creation of a Cue Index Data file [CID] from an Excel spreadsheet
    • - Transfer of the cues to the X32
    • - Navigate in the X32 cues with the Prev/Next buttons
    • - Launching cues from the X32 GO button

    This will launch what the CID contains, which can be a single or combination of audio, mix, automation (from the app) or even external application files

    Cool, no?

    Release coming up soon. Even better, all licensed users will receive the update automatically, for free. https://youtu.be/fCbviSCDF5U ...and more at https://x32ram.com

    -Patrick

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  • PastorCoe
    Contributor - Level 1
    2020-02-29

    Hello everyone. I hope that all are doing well. I pastor a church and we purchased the m32 back in August of last year. I have started tracking our services on sd cards over the last month but just recently tried to use a daw to capture the 32 tracks of audio. I downloaded Waves Tracks Live onto my laptop that has windows 10. I was under the impression that once the m32 was connected to my laptop that it would instantly recognize it as an interface. However, it never shows up as an available interface. I also downloaded the trial version of digital performer 10 and tried it. It still will not recognize the m32 as an interface. I then tried to do the same thing on our church's desktop in the sound booth that also runs windows 10 only to experience the same thing. If anyone can tell me what I'm doing wrong, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

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    • PastorCoe
      Paul_Vannatto

      Hi Pastor Coe @PastorCoe 


      Welcome to the forum. Did you download and install the M32 ASIO drivers for Win10 (found here)?


      We prefer Reaper as a DAW here. 


       

      • February 29, 2020
    • PastorCoe
      PastorCoe

      I have downloaded the 4.59 Asio driver but no daw that I have installed will recognize it. Also, I forgot to mention that I installed reaper on the church's desktop pc and it is the only daw that will recognize the dn-32 but when I choose it, it won't allow me to proceed with it as an interface. 

      • February 29, 2020
  • Caught exception: Specified column "user_id" is not in the row
  • S-Audio
    Contributor - Level 2
    2020-02-26
    0 115
    • S-Audio
      GaryHiggins

      @S-Audio see pic below, In the card out menu its sending the auxin 1-6/T to card 1-8, but if it's desired for another bank of DAW or X-Live ch's, just use that different bank instead OR setup a "user bank" and pick the aux's and another 2 ch, rather than Talkback, that fits your input DAW or X=Live setup the best.


       


      Screen Shot 2020-02-26 at 3.07.45 PM.png

      • February 26, 2020
    • S-Audio
      S-Audio

      Thanks I'll give that a try. I never even thought to use the software for the M32r. I was trying to figure it out with the screen on the console.......

      • February 26, 2020
  • soundpressure
    Contributor - Level 1
    2020-02-21

    How to use M32 Sine Wave funtion, I can do the system tuning with RTA. Just curious if same could be done with sine wave.

    0 83
    • soundpressure
      RexBeckett

      @soundpressure 


      Hello Ken, welcome to the community.


       


      You could use a succession of sine wave signals at 1/3rd octave frequency intervals to emulate a frequency sweep. In some ways this is better than using pink noise to evaluate system response but it would take a lot longer. It can be quite useful for checking how well crossover filters in active monitors and subs work together.

      • February 21, 2020
  • MAPsound
    Contributor - Level 2
    2020-02-20

    I'm working with a school who had a bunch of salespeople come in and install a TON of stuff they don't need over this rather involved Dante network. Originally all Yamaha-based audio gear (CL3 board and two RIO 1608-d digital snake heads). They didn't care that the board they sold them was INFINITELY too complicated for the volunteers (read: students) to run, they just wanted their commission.
    I come in and convince them to get an M32 with a Dante card. They love the board and aren't afraid to actually use it now. However, my issue is that the head amp knob on the board is only functioning as a digital trim, not actually adjusting the gain on the still-installed RIO stage boxes. (I'm not here to rewire the entire system. Just make what they have usable).

    So how can I get actual head amp control of the stage boxes directly from the M32? I don't want it to be just digital trim. Or is it possible to tie the AES50 directly into the Dante system? I believe it is compatible with AES67. Any help on this is greatly appreciated.

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    • MAPsound
      Paul_Vannatto

      Hi Trevor @MAPsound 


      Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately the AES50 is a proprietary protocol by Klark Teknik (based on their SuperMac protocol) and is not compatible with AES67. It actually only uses layer 1 of the ethernet protocol. Currently it only works with Behringer and Midas stageboxes (and some Klark Teknik devices such as KT9630).


       


      The X32, M32 and the new Wing can only control preamps (gain and phantom) of both local and AES50 inputs. All card inputs will be digital trims. The only way to have preamp control in a dante environment is to use the Dante Controller app on a computer. 


       

      • February 20, 2020
    • MAPsound
      GaryHiggins

      @MAPsound I am not sure how (or if) the M32 gain controls can control the RIO headamps over dante. Not faniliar with those boxes. The M32's were meant to be able to control the Midas and Behringer stagebox preamps or those of another KT based aes50 device. Not saying it can;t for sure though. You might check the setup and make sure HA Gain split is turned of as that would force the M32 to use trim.

      • February 20, 2020
    • MAPsound
      MAPsound

      This is the part where I would normally say something like "then what's the point of having a Dante card? If you can't set the proper gain at the source, then what is the purpose?" But I'm getting used to everything being annoyingly proprietary, even over a more global system like Dante.


      So you're saying there's no way to send a HA control signal, either via Dante or the Ethernet port or anything? That it will ONLY work with the matching stage boxes (S16/DL16, etc.)?

      • February 20, 2020
    • MAPsound
      Paul_Vannatto


      @MAPsound wrote:


      This is the part where I would normally say something like "then what's the point of having a Dante card? If you can't set the proper gain at the source, then what is the purpose?" But I'm getting used to everything being annoyingly proprietary, even over a more global system like Dante.





      Well I think you need to understand what you currently have. The M32 is a product made by Midas (part of the Music Tribe group of companies). The RIO-1608-D is a product made by Yamaha - a totally separate company (and fierce competitor of Midas). Dante is a product of Audinate that is simply a standard medium that connects devices and provides routing, etc. control via their software. The actual preamps are located in the RIO-1608-D stagebox. Therefore the control of those preamps will have to be accomplished remotely. But if one company is unwilling to provide control interface technology with its competitor, the medium (Dante) cannot be blamed. 


       




      So you're saying there's no way to send a HA control signal, either via Dante or the Ethernet port or anything? 



      Not from the M32 console - at least probably not until Uli buys Yamaha and adds it to the Music Tribe group of companies. 


       

      • February 20, 2020
    • MAPsound
      GaryHiggins

      @MAPsoundI ran acoss this software that might allow you to adjust the RIO preamps using a laptop. I only mention this because you made it seem like the M32 could already access the stagebox inputs and that adjusting gain was the only issue. This could be the bridge. Thought I would share it, did not read it closely.


       


      https://usa.yamaha.com/products/proaudio/software/r_remote/index.html

      • February 21, 2020
  • colino_ltapl
    Contributor - Level 2
    2020-02-19

    Hi guys, 

    I have a question and i hope we all can learn from each another. 

    Recently i have updated the firmware of the DP48 to 1.2, after which i am not able to remote control the other units via the 1st unit. 

    Is there a minimum unit to setup in order to do remote control of the other unit? Or is there a special CAT5 Cables we should be using in order for the connectivitiy to get thru. 
    Please take note that all my 5 units has signals passing thru from the M32 Console. 

    Hope to hear from you guys.

    Cheers!

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    • colino_ltapl
      Paul_Vannatto


      @colino_ltapl wrote:


      Recently i have updated the firmware of the DP48 to 1.2, after which i am not able to remote control the other units via the 1st unit. 





      Are you trying to change the group names and assignments from the first DP48 or from the M32? If it is from the first DP48 (in the chain), do you have it set  with the remote on (its device ID should say MSTR) and the rest should have remote on and should have unique device ID. Once that is setup, on the master (first) DP48, goto the Broadcast line and press the encoder. 


       


      If you are trying to send from the M32 Library, AES50 screen, we found a bug which the fix will be part of the next release.


       

      • February 19, 2020
    • colino_ltapl
      colino_ltapl

      Hi Paul,


      Appreciate your replies. 


      just to recap, the first DP48 on master and the rest are on their on IDs, after which punch in the broadcast on the first unit and select the other unit ID to control them correct? 


      Unfortunately it doesn't seems to be working. Did i miss out any step?

      • February 19, 2020
    • colino_ltapl
      Paul_Vannatto


      @colino_ltapl wrote:


      Unfortunately it doesn't seems to be working. Did i miss out any step?





      Did you turn on Remote on all the DP48's before pushing the Broadcast?

      • February 19, 2020
  • PatrickGMaillot
    Valued Contributor - Level 2
    2020-02-19
    Preparing new features for X32Automate programs: The X32 "GO" button can be used to launch different automation files (audio alone, audio+automation, etc.) to manage Musicals, Theater plays, shows, etc. First demo at https://youtu.be/bldx4bSH8DU More information at http://x32ram.com
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