Midas

Hi Dwayne ( @DwayneAasberg) , 

I don't know if I'd call @Paul_Vannatto or @Roblof  "sage or reasoned" but here you go: 

https://community.musictribe.com/t5/Mixing/Mixbus-Post-Fader-vs-Subgroup/td-p/108259

Ken

Think of a subgroup as a post-fader send with the send level locked at unity.

On older analogue consoles, with the send level essentially locked at unity, it's one less gain stage (potentiometer on an analogue console) that the signal would have to go through.  Instead of a variable send it was simply an assign\unassign switch.  Less complex circuitry = cleaner signal.  Not so much of an issue on a digital console.

The question then becomes (at least for digital consoles,) why would you want the send level to be locked at unity, rather than have it variable?  Basically because it's simpler to work with.  It also depends on what the subgroup is actually for.  With things like FX sends, you might want the send levels variable to help you control the dry:wet of individual channels in the main mix vs how much FX they get.  OTOH, you benefit from a send locked at unity if there are things like thresholds to worry about with parallel processing and you don't want things getting out of whack.

The other thing is that with stereo subgroups, the ch>subgroup pan follows the ch>LR pan, maintaining the stereo image, whereas if you have a stereo post fade send, you can set a different ch>bus pan than what the ch>LR pan is.

For your use case I'd use a subgroup because it's simpler (or I'd get a spare channel with full processing and set that channel's source as aux1.)

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@KenMitchell wrote:

I don't know if I'd call @Paul_Vannatto or @Roblof  "sage or reasoned"

I'm wondering, since sage is a spice, the OP meant to say "sage or seasoned" 

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https://community.musictribe.com/t5/Mixing/Mixbus-Post-Fader-vs-Subgroup/td-p/108259

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Oh my! Back then (2013) I was still trying to figure this "darn thing" (X32) out (just like I'm now doing with the Wing). @DwayneAasberg I would suggest you understand @CraigFowler 's explanation. 

I am in the Post fader Mix Bus send camp. I actually find it easier to select the Mix Bus that you want the channels assigned to and select sends on faders and bring up to Nominal the channels you want to send to that Mix Bus. Having to use the Mute as the on /off I have found confusing at times. It is referred to as variable sub groups by most people that use this method. I also like that this method gives me the ability to vary how much I send of each channel to that Mix Bus.  

But one of the things that is so nice with digital consoles is there are different ways to do things so you can do it the way you like it. You have options.

I will be setting up a system this afternoon for an event this weekend and we will be using one of the M32s (still on V3.07 of the firmware) for this. I will try and pay attention to the fader behavior and report back later today. 

@KevinMaxwell Well, I finally located firmware version 3.07 myself and when I loaded it up, my nice, snappy and essentially noise free faders returned!! Yippy! NOW the question is if I reload 4.01 from here if it will return them to this fast version when I do so. At least I know how to get them back to what was my normal now. 3.08 did not, 3.11 did not. And I now know I am not crazy (well sort of know) I wil also report back.

EDIT: Loading 4.01 again puts the faders at the slower, smoother speed and the fast fader option makes them fast again but with losts of extraneous "after" noise NOT like version 3.07 at all. I made some short videos of all 3 and when I figure HOW to post them, I will.

I listened very carefully and on the M32 I was setting up (that has V3.07 on it) there was no weird noises like you were experiencing with the console running 4.01 and the faders set to fast. I agree with you that it sounds like there is a bug in the 4.01 fast fader firmware.

@KevinMaxwell Thanks Kevin, my experience exactly. I can't seem to upload my little videos so I'm trying to post them via dropbox link instead. These show the differences quite clearly (though video is NOT my thing). Hope they will be up soon.

@KevinMaxwell or anyone else interested: Video 3 is the "new" fast fader version Again the news for anyone wanting the faders back the way they used to be prior to firmware 4.0 or 4.01 Load version 3.7 (it's still availble if you choose to include the archived version in search on the Midas page) In my case it brought back the fader speed to what it was the day I bought it. BUT 4.01 puts them right back to slow or (noisy) fast. I am choosing to use the slower faders and stay on 4.01 due to its awsomeness in other areas and until such time as the old fast and noisefree version returns. And.....just like the recent US Congressional hearings, The gentleman recognizes himself as to the solution

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5ru6bwfno5fcg5k/AAA9ugBcV-Se8L7YtteR35uYa?dl=0

EDIT2: I re-loaded firmware 3.7 to see what fader version it is that runs across the bottom of the screen-it appears to be fader version r/R .12 or r/R 1.2 

EDIT: As an aside I noticed in this process of loading different firmware versions that if you use the console global setup page (bottom left) for updating firmware, you can have several firmware files at the root directory at once, and pick which one to load. I always made sure there was only 1 in the past as that was the specifried way to do it. FWIW

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@shadwell wrote:

Hello all, 

As you know the M32C has 2 1/4 out on the back labled "monitoring outoput" I would like to send a paif of mix buses out to these physical outs. 

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Solo the desired mixbus master strip

PAUL  thank you!  

Im sorry, Paul you are correct in that by soloing the mix bus it in fact passes to the monitoring out.  

I just simply want to route the output of mix bus 1&2 to the monitoring out with no use of solos. It's for an IEM mix. The other IEM mixes would come off the stage box. 

For the the life of me , i find this box hard to use and I must say I am starting to think I might have purchased the wrong item.   I hope with some elbow grease I can turn this feeling around. 

There's monitoring and there's monitoring.  There are the console's 16 buses you'd use for monitoring (eg for wedges or IEMs,) then there's the console's stereo solo bus you'd use for solo-ing a particular channel in your headphones\nearfield monitors.

The dedicated "monitor" sockets on the rear of the console are tied to the console's solo bus.  They'll only ever output whatever's in the console's solo bus, unless nothing is soloed, in which case they'll output whatever is set in Monitor>Monitor Source option of the console.

The other XLR\TRS sockets on the rear of the console can have any bus routed to them (including the solo bus.)

What you cannot do is route a (non-solo) bus to the dedicated monitor sockets (at least not without sacrificing the console's solo functionality.)

If you let us know what console and stageboxes you've got, as well as which signals you'd like to appear on which outputs, we can probably figure out how to route it for you.

@CraigFowler   thanks very much for your patient response.  Ill get back to you with some thing more after some rest, its been a good long 12hr day and im more that a little fried. 

im really hoping I can feel good about this purchase, but right now im feeling really bummed out. 

best, A

Yes, was warned about it by a sound company that owns a number of PRO consoles. Suggest to contact Midas and send them Log Files.

Ishai

We call that "ghosting". This likely means the physical encoders will need replacing. Please fill out the support form and get in touch with our service team and they can assist. 

I had this issue on some encoders of my Pro-1 (espacially on eq-encoders)

the Midas-SAV replaced the whole encoder card/pannel without any costs (under waranty)

now, all is fine !!

Hi Manos

I suggest you use the Routing PLAY/REC function on the Routing Input screen :
- Set your regular input banks depending on what you want to record when you're in REC mode
- Now turn 6th encoder to select PLAY and push
- You now have a 2nd set of input routing where all the sources are replaced by the output from Ableton
(by default the PLAY routing is set to Cards)

DCA are not really channels
BUS and MATRIX cannot be reassigned to get card returns
So you have to use regular channels / aux to get audio back from Ableton.

I suggest you watch a couple tutorial videos about the Routing capabilities of the M/X32 series

Hope this helped
Best regards

@Manos 

Hi Manos, the last time I saw your scene, you were only using channels 1-12 & 31/32. You could route your twelve playback tracks to, say, channels 17-28 so they would be available by switching layers rather than using the Record/Play routing switch. 

Using the shiny new User In routing:

Hi APA

What exactly do you mean by "connection mapping" ?

Did you try to search this info in the DL252 manual maybe ?

Thanks for reaching out

Best regards

Thanks for this. Now if same could  be done for all the available effects, particulary for the more obscure ones... also, it needs to be mentioned that it needs to be turned on but here is the thing- Off mode is a muted green where as ON is "Greener " Green- as oppsed to different colors.....like red and green for example....

@ManosWhich mixer?

@Manos 

Hi Manos, are we still talking about your M32? If so, no, there is only one insert in each channel. You can insert in a Mixbus though so it would be possible to route a channel through a Mixbus and have two inserts.

What do you want to achieve? 

Hey Rex

Yep still on the M32, I wanted to super-proccess a synth line but will do it in the box since my 8 effect slots are already occupied in the mix.


Another thing I intend to achieve has to do with routing again, and I guess it's complicated enough. Should I open a new thread for this?

@rvasoundguy 

Hello Robert, welcome to the community.

I have loaded scenes saved on firmware 3.11 after upgrading to V4.0 without any compatibility problems. The upgrade process does reset a number of global console settings to default though. I wonder if this was causing your problems?