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Contributor - Level 2

4 cable connect and RFI noise

Hi,
i've connected mi G to my ENGL powerball head (parallel to serial fx loop
setted to 100%wet then serial) with the 4 cable method.
If i use only 2 cable and bypass the first dsp (filter,comp and loops)
using only modulation and time based effect in the loop i hear no noise,
but when i connect my G using the 4 cable method (using balanced jacks for
the insert loop) in the hi gain channels of the amp is often present not only
a reasonable hiss or hum but a RFI noise..in simpy words, i sometimes hear
a background of a radio station mixed with the hum.
Reading thruogh the board i've found that the EbTech hum eliminator is one
solution,but the problem is..my RFI noise is amplified ,using the G with 4 cables,
due to a ground loop that the EbThech can solves or must i also check out a
Furman power conditioner?

p.s. if i use the noise gate of the G with the gate of the powerball the noise
calms down but i hate using too much gates.

Thanks Smiley Happy
Tags (1)
bronz79 Contributor - Level 2 2008-09-18

2008-09-18

4 cable connect and RFI noise

Hi,
i've connected mi G to my ENGL powerball head (parallel to serial fx loop
setted to 100%wet then serial) with the 4 cable method.
If i use only 2 cable and bypass the first dsp (filter,comp and loops)
using only modulation and time based effect in the loop i hear no noise,
but when i connect my G using the 4 cable method (using balanced jacks for
the insert loop) in the hi gain channels of the amp is often present not only
a reasonable hiss or hum but a RFI noise..in simpy words, i sometimes hear
a background of a radio station mixed with the hum.
Reading thruogh the board i've found that the EbTech hum eliminator is one
solution,but the problem is..my RFI noise is amplified ,using the G with 4 cables,
due to a ground loop that the EbThech can solves or must i also check out a
Furman power conditioner?

p.s. if i use the noise gate of the G with the gate of the powerball the noise
calms down but i hate using too much gates.

Thanks Smiley Happy

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Contributor - Level 2

Re: 4 cable connect and RFI noise

bronz79 wrote:
Hi,
i've connected mi G to my ENGL powerball head (parallel to serial fx loop
setted to 100%wet then serial) with the 4 cable method.
If i use only 2 cable and bypass the first dsp (filter,comp and loops)
using only modulation and time based effect in the loop i hear no noise,
but when i connect my G using the 4 cable method (using balanced jacks for
the insert loop) in the hi gain channels of the amp is often present not only
a reasonable hiss or hum but a RFI noise..in simpy words, i sometimes hear
a background of a radio station mixed with the hum.
Reading thruogh the board i've found that the EbTech hum eliminator is one
solution,but the problem is..my RFI noise is amplified ,using the G with 4 cables,
due to a ground loop that the EbThech can solves or must i also check out a
Furman power conditioner?

p.s. if i use the noise gate of the G with the gate of the powerball the noise
calms down but i hate using too much gates.

Thanks Smiley Happy

ebTech HE-2 and balanced cables for any long cable runs. A power conditioner solves OTHER kinds of problems, and is unlikely to help with the problem you have. Although getting one of those too would certainly not be a bad thing. It would protect some of your electronics, among other things.

The ebTech will prevent ground loops that can cause your cable shield to act like a receiving loop antenna. The balanced connections will cancel out any noise that occurs when your long cables act like receiving antennas.
Gtrs: PRS Cust. 24 20-Anny Artist, Yamaha PAC1511 Mike Stern Signature Pedalboard: Barber Tone Press, TC NovaDrive, TC G-System, Eventide ModFactor Rack: Egnater M4 Modular Tube Preamp, Randall RT2/50 Power Amp, Palmer ADIG-LB load box/cab sim Acoustic: Stehr Coco/Adi Custom-build OO, Stehr Koa/Adi Custom Build GA, Stehr Braz/Adi Custom Build GA, Taylor 814ce-L10, G-Natural
Contributor - Level 2

Re: 4 cable connect and RFI noise

is a better connection with the ebTech HE-2 and thr G this one:

G. Insert send -----> balanced cable -----> EBTECH in ch 1
EBTECH out ch 1. -----> short well shielded cable -----> Preamp/Amp input

Preamp/Amp Send -----> balanced cable -----> G. Insert return

G output -----> balanced cable -----> EBTECH in ch2
EBTECH out ch2 -----> short well shielded cable -----> Preamp/Amp Return or Poweramp in


or this?:

Instrument or Balanced Cable: G-System Insert Send --> Amp In
SHORT Instrument Cable: Amp FX Send --> Hum Eliminator Channel 1 In
Instrument or Balanced Cable: Hum Eliminator Channel 1 Out --> G-System Insert Return
Instrument or Balanced Cabel: G-System Out --> HumEliminator Channel 2 In
SHORT Instrument Cable: HumEliminator Channel 2 Out --> Amp FX Return
Contributor - Level 2

Re: 4 cable connect and RFI noise

bronz79 wrote:
is a better connection with the ebTech HE-2 and thr G this one:

G. Insert send -----> balanced cable -----> EBTECH in ch 1
EBTECH out ch 1. -----> short well shielded cable -----> Preamp/Amp input

Preamp/Amp Send -----> balanced cable -----> G. Insert return

G output -----> balanced cable -----> EBTECH in ch2
EBTECH out ch2 -----> short well shielded cable -----> Preamp/Amp Return or Poweramp in


or this?:

Instrument or Balanced Cable: G-System Insert Send --> Amp In
SHORT Instrument Cable: Amp FX Send --> Hum Eliminator Channel 1 In
Instrument or Balanced Cable: Hum Eliminator Channel 1 Out --> G-System Insert Return
Instrument or Balanced Cabel: G-System Out --> HumEliminator Channel 2 In
SHORT Instrument Cable: HumEliminator Channel 2 Out --> Amp FX Return

It all depends on the amp in question. You would need to experiment around a bit. In most cases, ground loops will not form on all 3 linkages between the G and the amp. Given that the link from the Amp Send to the G will be pseudo-balanced if you use a balanced cable, I recommend that you start with the ebTech CH1 between the Insert Send and the amp input and ebTech CH2 between the G-System Out and the Amp's FX return. This way, you get the benefit of balancing on all 3 linkages and have a 2/3 shot at squelching any ground loop hum as well.

If you still get ground loop hum in that configuration, you'll need to experiment a bit to see where it resides.
Gtrs: PRS Cust. 24 20-Anny Artist, Yamaha PAC1511 Mike Stern Signature Pedalboard: Barber Tone Press, TC NovaDrive, TC G-System, Eventide ModFactor Rack: Egnater M4 Modular Tube Preamp, Randall RT2/50 Power Amp, Palmer ADIG-LB load box/cab sim Acoustic: Stehr Coco/Adi Custom-build OO, Stehr Koa/Adi Custom Build GA, Stehr Braz/Adi Custom Build GA, Taylor 814ce-L10, G-Natural
Contributor - Level 2

Re: 4 cable connect and RFI noise

Hi to all,
i'm back again with my problem about my setup.
Yesterday i bought an Ebtech 4x4 (the only rack unit avaible in Italy).
I've tested every channel of the 4x4 to get rid off of the hum,also
putting insert send,return and out of the G through the 4x4.
But nothing solved, it's almost like haven't the hum eliminator.

But i must be honest: the noise that i hear, increasing from clean
to gain channels and increasing very much using the boost (loocked
to +6) sonds to my hears more like a hiss (i hear a sssssssssss coming
out from my speakers) than a hum..and i'm a bit confused about the
difference in between.
Hum is caused by a ground loop and in Italy is 50hz..but the hiss?

The only improvment i had is using better balanced cables that eliminate
any Rfi issue..and using the g-system gate: with a damp of only 8/9 db
even in the hi gain channel and even using the boost my sistem is noise
free.

So i'm condemned to use the gate or there is an other solution?

p.s. i can @Laird_Williams my exact setup if you want,cause i don't
want to flood the forum or post in other thread my personal problem.

p.p.s. @ the Admin tore@tc if you can change the title of my thread
in "engl powerball and g-system" i think is more usefull for the forum.

Thanks.