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Contributor - Level 2

Ok..intelligent pitch shifter and "Hotel California"

I've been twisting knobs all afternoon and just cannot accomplish this sound.

Has anyone come up with a setting that will work?

So far as I can tell from what I'm hearing, the intelligent pitch shifter can learn a thing or two from Evantide because it's unstable as hell..the altered note drifts all over the place even in the regular pitch shifter.

I was going to try making two patches with one a a third and one at a fifth, but that didn't want to work either...
1972 Les Paul Custom, PRS CE 24, Taylor 314CE Acoustic. Marshall TSL 100, G System (3.50) in 4 wire setup...quiet as a churchmouse! And X2 Digital Wirless...da best...no high end loss at all no matter how far you go...I've yet to play a room that's bigger than the effective range of this wireless.
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grumpops Contributor - Level 2 2009-01-07

2009-01-07

Ok..intelligent pitch shifter and "Hotel California"

I've been twisting knobs all afternoon and just cannot accomplish this sound.

Has anyone come up with a setting that will work?

So far as I can tell from what I'm hearing, the intelligent pitch shifter can learn a thing or two from Evantide because it's unstable as hell..the altered note drifts all over the place even in the regular pitch shifter.

I was going to try making two patches with one a a third and one at a fifth, but that didn't want to work either...

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Super Contributor - Level 2

Re: Ok..intelligent pitch shifter and "Hotel California"

I believe the harmonizer has a setting to allow the harmonized notes to modulate. You would probably want to minimize that.

When I first got my G, I took a stock harmony patch and did a few different harmonies which seemed to work just fine. Most notably I was playing the intro to "The Trooper" and it worked great. Maybe my standards are lower, but I was really impressed. The stock guitar-sounds-like-a-bass patch sounds fine to me as well.
G System Black iB mod
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Ok..intelligent pitch shifter and "Hotel California"

I agree that the inteligent pitch should have been more like Eventide!!!

I noticed the same drift or warble in the altered note as well, only I dont notice it unless I'm holding a note longer than a few seconds. If Im playing short notes, it sounds great.

I'm not sure which adjustment Elvis is referring to, for adjusting the modulation of the altered note. If there is such an adjustment, please tell me how to access it.

I added some delay and some reverb to my intelligent presets and it helped, but still not perfect.

I did not notice this using regular pitch/straight octave.
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Ok..intelligent pitch shifter and "Hotel California"

Hi all,

I've been playing quite a lot on that tune, and you need a bit more than just the inteligent pitch

Actually let's have a look at the last chords which are harmonized (the arpegios section):


|| Bm | F#7 | Asus2 | E9/G# | G | D | Em7 | F#7 ||

We are in the key of B aeolian (minor), but theyR couple of chords which are not in the key:
- the F#7: which can be seen as V7 i.e. weR in the tonality of F# Phrygian Dominant or B minor Harmonic
- the E9/G#: which belongs to E Myxolidian or B Dorian

You see that you can stay in the B tonality but it is required to change modes on the V7 and the IV7 chords, if not youR out of tune.

My approach would be to have three presets or to have two momentary on switch with presets with B Harmonic and B Dorian presets but you still have to use your feet.

Another approach woudl be to use midi to change the presets...

Well, maybe there is a simpler approach.... if anyone has a better idea...

Cheers,

Gizmo

NB: Forgot to mention. No worry about the sus chord since the 2sd of A is.... B
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Ok..intelligent pitch shifter and "Hotel California"

OK - I'm a musical dope - but I understand what you are saying about changing the patches to correspond harmonically to the chord changes (good job explaining, BTW). But when I set the next patch to F# Frygian, I don't know what values to set for Voice 1 and Voice 2. The way you wrote it, I am not sure whether to use Phrygian Dominant or B minor Harmonic

Acutally this is true for all of them except B aeolian (minor) which seemed to know the right 3rd voicing. Can you spell it out? That is to say, tell me what voices to use for each setting? Sorry to be a pain but I really need to do this and am struggling. I don't care if I have to hit several patches (Maybe I'll someday figur out how to create a momentary on switch!).

The part I am trying to replicate is actually the harmony parts in the verses, not the end.

Thanks!
Bill
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Ok..intelligent pitch shifter and "Hotel California"

Unfortunately I can't..I gave up months ago and no longer even try using that particular part of the G...the rest of the device is gold times ten though.
1972 Les Paul Custom, PRS CE 24, Taylor 314CE Acoustic. Marshall TSL 100, G System (3.50) in 4 wire setup...quiet as a churchmouse! And X2 Digital Wirless...da best...no high end loss at all no matter how far you go...I've yet to play a room that's bigger than the effective range of this wireless.
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Ok..intelligent pitch shifter and "Hotel California"

Thanks - I appreciate the response even if there is no answer because maybe.... there is no answer. I think I'll learn from your experience and just say, oh well. not with this.

I absolutely agree that the rest is brilliant - just a little dissapointed because I was pretty sure it would be a snap - I came up with some cool things that may even work someday but not against anything other than 1, !V V type simple chords structures. Hotel is not that...

Thanks for the reply...
Bill
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Ok..intelligent pitch shifter and "Hotel California"

so let's do this:

|| Bm | F#7 | Asus2 | E9/G# | G | D | Em7 | F#7 ||


Bm : B, D, F#
F#7: F#, A#, C#, B
Asus2: A, B, E
E9: E, G#, B, F#
G: G, B, D
D: D, F#, A
Em7: E, G, B, D
F#7 as above

you would star with a regular Bm scale.
B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A, B

the only chords that don't work here are: F# and E

for F# you need a Bm harmonic scale:
B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A#, B

for the E you need the B scale:
B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A#, B

i think they always use the third in second voice, so i'd try with the scales and only use voice 1 set to 3

does that make sense? Smiley Happy have to try that myself... am not the theoretical guy... Smiley Wink
so, i agree with gizmo...i think Smiley Wink

that would be then:
1) B Aeolia
2) B HrmMin on F#
3) B Ionian on E
Voice 1: +3, Level1: 0dB, Delay1: 15ms, Mix 50%

so much about harmonic pitch shifting...



**************** B U T ***********************************************

doing multi-voice arrangements is more than letting a computer do the third. as you can hear in the verse between the first and the second part (between "...bell" and "i was thinking to myself") the first guitar changes the tune, the second doesn't. so u got:

B / D --> A# / C# --> A / C#
(Bm) (F#) (A)

this can't be done with scales you use for a solo. if you use a A# in a "B HrmMin" you will always get a C# for second voice.

perhaps you can get this by experimenting with one "g-system scale" (patch) per "chord" to get the basics, but the licks between would be hard.

So now we'd get sth like this for the basics:
Bm (B / D) : "B Aeolia" (with licks)
F# (A#/C#): "B HrmMin" (just chord)
A (A / C#): "A Ionian" or "G Lydian" or "F Whole"... (with licks)
E: ...
G: ...
D: ...

get this? that would mean 8 patches, but no guarantee that this will work. it's a theoretical work: write down all notes that are being played and find suitable scales and jumps to these at the right time.
Fender VG Strat, G-System, Nova-System, H&K Tubefactor, Diezel VH4, Engl 412 V30, Engl 212 VH
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Ok..intelligent pitch shifter and "Hotel California"

so, let philosophy be a good man, i got proof! Smiley Wink

i took a quick shot on that and came up with this (just works for the verse, if you play "intelligently":
www.2WO-quadrat.de/__extras/HotelCalifornia1.mp3
www.2WO-quadrat.de/__extras/HotelCalifornia2.mp3

i used these settings:
Patch1: B Aeolia
Patch2: B HrmMin
Patch3: B Ionian (can be another, but works here)

Bm: Patch1 (or Patch2)
F#: Patch2
A: Patch 1
E: Patch3
G: Patch1
D: Patch1
Em: Patch1
F#: Patch2

all:
Voice1: +3, Level: 0dB, Delay 15ms, Mix 75%
Voice2: unisono, Level: -100dB, Delay 0ms.

i used:
- fender strat (with piezo bridge)
- musicman stingray
- G (4 cable)
- roadster
- rhode microphone
- a/d interface
- garageband (no equalization)

this just works for the verse. for the solo (the chord breaking thing) you often need a 4th instead of a third...so it is either step dancing or ask another guitarplayer to come along. even for the verse you need (in the 2nd example) to leave some tones (with the B Aeolia) out because you need a fourth there too, but this pretty much got it, i think

you get a little phaser-effect by the pitch shifter... i think one have to live with that. but i think in this case it is quite charming.

cheers, fred

ps: forgive me if it isn't that thight..was just a quick shot. Smiley Wink

pps: if your tones warble: a pitch shifter can only pitch "strong" notes...that means if you hold a tone for too long, the signal/noise ration gets to small: the signal is not strong enough. you can try compensating with the compressor in a sustaining mode which gives the weakening signal a little more push.
it is always like that: a computer can only analyse what's coming in. and it gets better the better one clear signal comes in.
Fender VG Strat, G-System, Nova-System, H&K Tubefactor, Diezel VH4, Engl 412 V30, Engl 212 VH
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Ok..intelligent pitch shifter and "Hotel California"

Nice job!
G System - Rivera Venus 6 - Grosh Electrajet - Mid 80's MIJ Strat - Mid 80's MIJ Tele - Toob Top - OCD - P90 - Coolcat Fuzz - Crybaby Wah - Shure SLX Wireless.