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Contributor - Level 3

Shut Down Pop/Tump

I'm back with another likely NOBO question. Let me explain our newly installed setup...

X32 FOH

S32 Backstage

3 Crown 1500XLI (L,R,C)

1 Crown 3500XLI (SUB)

all behind a Furman CN2400-S Sequencer and 3 CN-20MP Remote Duplex.

 

Sequence on is

Delay 1 X32

Delay 2 (MIcrophone Recievers FOH)/Assistive Listening

Delay 3 AMP Rack w 3 remotes backstage

Clean boot no pop...

Same in reverse and speakers pop...

I have narrowed it down to be the power cycle on the S32 reguardless if switched off, unplugged, sequenced...

 What is the best solution for the issue? I know I have all good new gear only 6 weeks old...

 Can I leave the S32 on all the time?

do I need to sequence it with the X32 somehow wit hanother remote wire?

Any help is appreciated.

T_ScottSmith Contributor - Level 3 2020-03-11

2020-03-11

Shut Down Pop/Tump

I'm back with another likely NOBO question. Let me explain our newly installed setup...

X32 FOH

S32 Backstage

3 Crown 1500XLI (L,R,C)

1 Crown 3500XLI (SUB)

all behind a Furman CN2400-S Sequencer and 3 CN-20MP Remote Duplex.

 

Sequence on is

Delay 1 X32

Delay 2 (MIcrophone Recievers FOH)/Assistive Listening

Delay 3 AMP Rack w 3 remotes backstage

Clean boot no pop...

Same in reverse and speakers pop...

I have narrowed it down to be the power cycle on the S32 reguardless if switched off, unplugged, sequenced...

 What is the best solution for the issue? I know I have all good new gear only 6 weeks old...

 Can I leave the S32 on all the time?

do I need to sequence it with the X32 somehow wit hanother remote wire?

Any help is appreciated.

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Contributor - Level 3

Re: Shut Down Pop/Tump

@DeclanSlater, @Paul_Vannatto,

I have FINALLY found my mistake and the problem is resolved to be working fine now. I thank both of you for your input and ideas...

In a word it was all in DIP switch setting on the CN-20MP Furman remote duplex modules. They have DIP switches that set time delay, etc... I overlooked that sw 7 is set to primary as a factory default and that in my configuration behind a CN-2400S these should be switched to secondary... Doing this has changed the way the entire system behaves. I have had to do some trim adjustments to the time delays but all is working perfect now after this discovery and my S32 shutdown about 15 seconds after the amplifiers and NO POP!😎👊 P.S. the manual that comes with the components of the sequencing system leave alot to be desired. The online version still falls short of a good explanation of all features and settings but was where I found my setup error! Thanks again to you both for your time.

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Volunteer Moderator

Re: Shut Down Pop/Tump

Hi Scott @T_ScottSmith 

Your setup is similar to the setup we have at my church. What we did was to place the sequencer in the front rack (with 2 S16, wireless mic receivers, amps, etc.), then ran a low voltage wire (telephone wire is fine) from the sequencer switch (opened up and soldered across the switch) to a switch beside the X32 FOH (actually mounted it inside the rack mounted power conditioner). Then we would turn on the FOH (X32 and other accessories), then switch on the sequencer. Turning off at the end of the service is in reverse (waiting about 15 seconds for the sequencer to complete its cycle).

 

By the way, we installed this in Dec 2012 and it has worked wonderfully ever since.

 

Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator. Did you find my post helpful? Give kudos or mark it as a solution!
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Contributor - Level 3

Re: Shut Down Pop/Tump

okay, thanks Paul. I appreciate your time.

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Contributor - Level 3

Re: Shut Down Pop/Tump

Good tip!  It seems that the s32 is causing the thump on power down, it is sequenced in the exact same stage as the power amps, and when they are both turned off - the amps continue to run for a second or so while the caps inside them drain out - they run long enough to amplify the dying pulse of the s32 as it is powering down.

 

Try connecting the relays powering the s32 units to the second or first stage of the sequencer, and leave the relay(s) powering all the amps on the last stage of the sequencer.

Declan Slater
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Contributor - Level 3

Re: Shut Down Pop/Tump

@DeclanSlater,@Paul_Vannatto, So for now I have removed the Smart Sequence link from the 3rd CN-20MP backstage at the amp rack. Essentially this just leaves the S32 powered up all the time. the pop is gone. I cannot seem to wrap my head around an alternative method to establish a delay between the remote modules themselves. when the smart sequence signal hits one of them all three shut off in a matter of milliseconds, reguardless of the delay set in the dip switches on each remote module. Will it hurt to just not powercycle the S32?

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Re: Shut Down Pop/Tump

Well @T_ScottSmith my wife would tell me to walk up there and turn it off, because I needed the exercise 

Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator. Did you find my post helpful? Give kudos or mark it as a solution!
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Re: Shut Down Pop/Tump

The only problem you'll have is that the caps in the power supply for the s32 will fail much earlier than if the unit was shut off often. You should have a good ups protecting that unit, that will help extend the life of the power supply filter caps. I'd recommend a commercial rack mount ups with AVR (automatic voltage regulation) that outputs a sine wave, not a stepped square wave AC. I find you do not need a "full time" ups.  Switchover time to battery should be 6ms or less. A rack mount unit like that will most likely not overcharge the battery(s), like smaller/cheaper ups units will.

 

As for how to get it sequenced up/down right... You could plug a 12v DC wall wort into the AC outlet on sequencer output #2 at FOH. Then run something like twisted pair wire from that to a 12v relay (feeding the s32, wire gauge thick enough to easily handle the coil current of the relay) that lives in the amp rack, connected to that wire.  

Declan Slater
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Contributor - Level 3

Re: Shut Down Pop/Tump

Looking at your OP, the last part of my response may be kinda lame, myself, I'd go with the relay option (maybe two RIB relays/12v power supplies, hooked to outputs 2 & 3, one for the s32, one for the amps) because its simple/cheaper - that won't help much if you want to use those Furman remote relay units though.  Looks like they sequence over a network, with some kinda special serial cable?  I'm not very familiar with that series yet...

Declan Slater
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Contributor - Level 3

Re: Shut Down Pop/Tump

@DeclanSlater, @Paul_Vannatto,

I have FINALLY found my mistake and the problem is resolved to be working fine now. I thank both of you for your input and ideas...

In a word it was all in DIP switch setting on the CN-20MP Furman remote duplex modules. They have DIP switches that set time delay, etc... I overlooked that sw 7 is set to primary as a factory default and that in my configuration behind a CN-2400S these should be switched to secondary... Doing this has changed the way the entire system behaves. I have had to do some trim adjustments to the time delays but all is working perfect now after this discovery and my S32 shutdown about 15 seconds after the amplifiers and NO POP!😎👊 P.S. the manual that comes with the components of the sequencing system leave alot to be desired. The online version still falls short of a good explanation of all features and settings but was where I found my setup error! Thanks again to you both for your time.

View solution in original post

Volunteer Moderator

Re: Shut Down Pop/Tump


@T_ScottSmith wrote:

@DeclanSlater, @Paul_Vannatto,

I have FINALLY found my mistake and the problem is resolved to be working fine now. 


Glad to hear that you figured it out and got it working.

Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator. Did you find my post helpful? Give kudos or mark it as a solution!