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Using Mackie DL32 with Dante card to x32

Contributor - Level 2
I have a group that uses a Mackie 32 rack and they use it for their in ear mixer. I am coming in and handling house sound. I have an X32 Rack and an S16 stage box. They are saying they run out of thier Dante card and then they can use their rack for thier in ears and through the Dante card they can feed me all 32 channels and sends to use with the X32 and have my own control of house. I am already using the ASEA50 for my s16 - but I guess I don’t need that with this method because thier DL32 works as my stage box?. Do I need a Dante card as well to make this work? If I can use my factory card, how do I route it to receive the inputs and outputs from thier Dante card.
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Re: Using Mackie DL32 with Dante card to x32

Contributor - Level 3
If they're using Dante you'll need the X-Dante card to interface with them, as the console's X-USB card won't do Dante. The console only has 1 expansion card slot. You'd replace your X-USB card with the X-Dante card. It's 2 screws.

You'd need to set your console to clock off the Dante card, and ensure your console is set to a 48kHz sample rate. You'd then go Routing>Home\Inputs and tell your inputs to source signals off card1-32. You's only need the S16 if you wanted some more remote IO. Your Rack can output FOH mixes off its own XLR\TRS outputs, and\or you can send those mixes back to the DL32R via Dante and they can be output there (assuming they have enough physical outputs available; they might be using them all for monitors.)

Re: Using Mackie DL32 with Dante card to x32

Contributor - Level 2
Thanks, I was afraid I would have to buy the card. They use the DL32 sticktly for ears so my outputs would go to house and wedges for supporting act. I guess some it acts as a stage box, I won’t need the S16. So just to confirm, my inputs map to the Dante card instead of my inputs? That’s all I have to change? If I did need to use my S16 would setting the clock to Dante, would that change how the S16 works. Would the ultra net still work on the first 16 channels for the support acts?

Re: Using Mackie DL32 with Dante card to x32

Contributor - Level 2
Is there any way to use the AES50 port and make it work without the Dante cards? The DL has an AES50 port but it is XLR.

Re: Using Mackie DL32 with Dante card to x32

Contributor - Level 3
Thanks, I was afraid I would have to buy the card.

Correct. Unless you get a bunch of analogue mic splitters and use them between the mics and the preamps and forget Dante altogether. Then you would need your S16 if you needed >16 preamps.

So just to confirm, my inputs map to the Dante card instead of my inputs? That’s all I have to change?

Just that and the clock source, and confirm the sample rate. AFAIK the DL32R's Dante card only clocks at 48kHz, so your console will need to be set to match if it's not already.

If I did need to use my S16 would setting the clock to Dante, would that change how the S16 works.

No.

Would the ultra net still work on the first 16 channels for the support acts?

Yes.

Is there any way to use the AES50 port and make it work without the Dante cards? The DL has an AES50 port but it is XLR.

No. The AES port on the DL32R is AES3, not AES50. They're completely different (the most noticeable difference (apart from the XLR vs RJ45) is that AES3 is only stereo, whereas AES50 can do 48x48 (@ 48kHz, if you increase the sample rate to 96kHz, eg with the Midas purple stageboxes, that drops to being 24x24. Either way, it's still not AES3.) About the only thing the sockets have in common is that they have something to do with AES: the Audio Engineering Society.

Analogue mic splits or an X-Dante card are your only options, and both involve spending money. Actually there's a 3rd option of going Dante from their DL32R into your own laptop (you'd need to buy the Dante Via+DVS software) then going from your laptop into your Rack via USB. It's cheaper than buying new hardware (assuming you already have a laptop,) but the latency would most likely make it unusable unless the band was all at the back of a very deep stage and you used that latency to help align the PA with the backline.

Re: Using Mackie DL32 with Dante card to x32

Contributor - Level 2
Last question, will this option give the X32 it’s on gain control or since the Mackie would essentially be the stage box, would its gain control the x32 input? I am looking for my own gain control from the input. We are basically making the Mackie the monitor mixer for thier I ears and my x32 full house control. As it is now, not to mention I don’t like the navigation of the app on the DL32, I have to basically mix off the sub groups because of I change anything at the channel level, we or DSP, it effects their ears. I basically have very lattice control over the mix how they have it setup. I was hoping the Dante card worked just like a splitter snake so they could use thier DL32 for thier IEM and I could have full control of house including gain. I do like one thing that I wish the X32 rack would add and that is view groups. You really need it on the DL because of the scroll to get to the faders. I also like the ghost fader position when using the VCA’s. It shows he much you have lowered the channel fader. Last is the trim in addition to gain. Hoping X32 will add some of these features. I like the layout of the X32 of other apps.

Re: Using Mackie DL32 with Dante card to x32

Contributor - Level 2
In addition, do both systems have discrete gain control or does one system control the other?

Re: Using Mackie DL32 with Dante card to x32

Volunteer Moderator
Danny Berry;157148 wrote:
Last question, will this option give the X32 it’s on gain control or since the Mackie would essentially be the stage box, would its gain control the x32 input?

Hi Danny, I think that question has to be answered on the Mackie forum, since independent gain depends on whether you can access the Mackie DL32 preamps independently from the Mackie console. I know that in the X32 world that is not possible. Only one console can control the preamps (gains and phantom) at any one time. The X32 does have a digital trim feature (+-18 db) that can be enabled but only within the X32 eco-system. Mackie is a separate manufacturer.

The X-Dante card receives whatever the Mackie Dante interface sends, and I'm not sure if there is any remote preamp control functionality in the Dante protocol. Someone (eg. Robert) may be able to answer that question.

Just thought of something. If in the X32 eco-system, we have more than one console connected and the HA Gain Split is enabled, the only way to control the preamps (gains and phantom) is on the console that has control and only on the Setup, preamps screen. That screen can only access preamps from the Local (preamps in the actual console) and the AES50 (A and B) connected stageboxes or other consoles. That all said, there is no card (eg. X-Dante) preamp control on that screen, which means that there is no way to control the gains from the Mackie DL32 from the X32 (via Dante). You will have the digital trim (+- 18 db) available though.
Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator

Re: Using Mackie DL32 with Dante card to x32

Contributor - Level 3
As Paul said, the Mackie would control its own preamp gain, and that would affect the level of signal hitting the X32 (unless the Mackie has some form of gain splitting\gain stabilization settings a-la Soundcraft's DOGS that can be enabled after the preamp gain is set.) Either way, being a digital signal hitting the X32, all you'll get is a -+18dB digital trim at the top of your channels.

The Dante protocol does allow for certain OOBD along with the Dante stream which could be used for remote preamp control, but it requires co-operation from the manufacturers of the gear on both ends of the Dante stream to ensure that OOBD is tx'd and rx'd in a compatible format. It's why it's such a big deal when manufacturers get together and make it happen, eg Shure and Yamaha, so now Shure's Dante-enabled wireless systems can be controlled from a Yamaha console. If Yamaha do that first it means people who want to use Shure's Dante systems are more likely to buy a Yamaha console rather than a Digico\A&H etc. AFAIK Mackie and TMG have not got together and arranged an OOBD format to allow TMG consoles to control Mackie preamps over Dante. TMG would probably want to use OSC to fit with the rest of the console... I have no clue what Mackie use in their DL32R. It's a lot simpler when it's just the one manufacturer on both ends, eg Yamaha with their TIO-D stageboxes and TF consoles.

I have to basically mix off the sub groups because of I change anything at the channel level, we or DSP, it effects their ears.

I have no idea why your FOH mixing would affect their ears. You've got 2 DSPs, two sets of channels and buses to work with... or are you mixing their ears as well from FOH\they're sending you signals not off their preamps, but off channel DOs post-processing? If you're going Mics>Mackie>X32, there's no way the X32's mixing should affect the sound of IEMs.

If you are mixing FOH+monitors and you've got enough buses\channels to do the split, you could just mix everything on your X32, send monitor mixes back to the Mackie via Dante to be output on its own analogue outs, and just use the Mackie as a "dumb" stagebox; not as an actual DSP for monitors.

If you've got your heart set on using the X32 to mix FOH and you want preamp control then all you can do is either go Mics>X32>Mackie (which puts them in the boat you're currently in of not having preamp control) or getting analogue splits (eg a few ART S8s) and splitting before anyone's preamps.
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