EricBroviak Contributor - Level 2 2015-08-02

2015-08-02

A former believer turns sour

As I've used the XR18 more I was gaining more confidence in it, UNTIL last night. I probably experienced every issue that's been listed in the forum so I won't repeat. Let's just say Connection Lost was the message of the night. I was no more than 20 ft from the Xr as the radio signal flies and could usually see the antenna visually. So, anybody know the following:

1. My Airport Utility showed that the channel I was on had other competitors so I changed it - I thought. Later, Airport showed the Xr was still on the old channel. Can this not be changed from the iPad app? Sure looks like it can.

2. Airport showed my Xr signal was about 20db above the competitors. That should be enough for capture in most radio systems, clearly not here. Anyone with test gear ever check this out.

3. During break, I restarted several things trying to get the channel to change. Once it finally reestablished communication it took forever to update. Several scribble strip labels never did update although the colors did. Is there no periodic refresh to make sure iPad and Xr stay in sync

Please don't tell me to buy a router or cables; I know all that but bought this thing to make setup quick and easy. Up until now, it has been just that. Now I have increased empathy for others who've posted these issues.

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Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

Go for an external router...
I am using it since first time i had issues, and now, after almost 50 shows with it i realize that a dedicated external dual band router is the way to go.
Everything has a weak point... On the xr18 is the connectivity, due to the poor power of the internal router.
Period!
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

OK - so, I CAN change the channel with the iPad as long as I toggle the switch away from AP and then back? Is that the consensus?

Second, I was monitoring in real time (the 20 db advantage) and dropping all over. This is the first time I've had issues like this so if the theory about the iPad wanting to find "better" connections were correct, it would have happened at other venues. In those venues, the iPad DOES have a wifi network in its memory that does offer internet. It does NOT move away from the X18 unless I restart the X18. SO, I can't buy this explanation (and its variants) at all. This was our first time in this venue and all H was breaking loose.

For my work, even a short dropout is serious. For example, I bring up the lead guitar for his lead - he finishes - I can't pull him back to his proper rhythm place in the mix. Now I've got a guitar "sticking out" until I regain control. Same with almost every channel except the drums for my main band. Dynamic mixing - not a set it and forget it. I was afraid to move things last night lest they stay in the wrong place for the next song (or part). I took to walking up to the thing so I could return faders as needed and still had some issues.

SO FAR - no comments on the periodic sync needed to make sure my scribble strips (and everything else) stays in sync. I did watch what finally came back updating over about a 5 min period. Some never came back all the way. Scary.
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

I'm back to the same thing I've been preaching on this forum since the beginning. There is exactly ONE method for using the XR that is reliable enough to be used in mission-critical, i.e. LIVE settings. That is the XR connected via Ethernet connection to a decent quality wifi router. Period. Seems as I read these forums and every problem report, the common issue in all of them has been using the internal Wifi of the XR (either in client or AP mode). Meanwhile, I gig 4-6 times a month with my XR in this configuration and have not had a single "Connection Lost" or other random failure.

Everyone's got their own theories on this but I simply cannot agree with anyone that wants to claim the XR's wifi is as reliable as the Wifi NIC's on my android tablet, iPad and laptop devices. The firmware side of it is missing things that are very basic functionality on other Wifi devices and it's behavior is far more erratic. The internal wifi is fine if you're in a controlled environment where you can minimize interference. The same is not true of live environments.

Finally, I'll also mention that despite not having experienced any Wifi failures with this configuration, at every gig I do still have a laptop connected to the router via Ethernet as a worst case scenario backup. Wherever possible, I recommend this as well.
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Super Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

One thing that I have found very useful is to put the iPads/Androids into "Airplane Mode" before connecting.
When in Airplane mode all that random radio stuff should be off. Both my iPads and my Androids let me turn WiFi on and connect to my XR18 with no problem, and no congestion that I have seen (I don't frequent places with 300 phones trying to network).

It certainly shouldn't hurt, and you really don't want your control devices talking on the phone while performing anyway
Logic Pro X 10.4.8, X-Touch 1.15, XR18 1.5, macOS 10.14.5|10.15.2
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Contributor - Level 3

Re: A former believer turns sour

Chris Janton;55907 wrote:
One thing that I have found very useful is to put the iPads/Androids into "Airplane Mode" before connecting.
When in Airplane mode all that random radio stuff should be off. Both my iPads and my Androids let me turn WiFi on and connect to my XR18 with no problem, and no congestion that I have seen (I don't frequent places with 300 phones trying to network).

It certainly shouldn't hurt, and you really don't want your control devices talking on the phone while performing anyway


Happened to my Ipad Gen4 and Android(Kitkat ROM), need to turn on the "Airplane" Mode to have stable xAir connection and "Forget" all other wifi connection except the xAir internal or External Router. When my Android tab upgrade to Lollipop ROM, it will locked to xAir connection without turning on the "Airplane" mode.
Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

TJ Miller;55906 wrote:
I'm back to the same thing I've been preaching on this forum since the beginning. There is exactly ONE method for using the XR that is reliable enough to be used in mission-critical, i.e. LIVE settings. That is the XR connected via Ethernet connection to a decent quality wifi router. Period. Seems as I read these forums and every problem report, the common issue in all of them has been using the internal Wifi of the XR (either in client or AP mode). Meanwhile, I gig 4-6 times a month with my XR in this configuration and have not had a single "Connection Lost" or other random failure.

Everyone's got their own theories on this but I simply cannot agree with anyone that wants to claim the XR's wifi is as reliable as the Wifi NIC's on my android tablet, iPad and laptop devices. The firmware side of it is missing things that are very basic functionality on other Wifi devices and it's behavior is far more erratic. The internal wifi is fine if you're in a controlled environment where you can minimize interference. The same is not true of live environments.

Finally, I'll also mention that despite not having experienced any Wifi failures with this configuration, at every gig I do still have a laptop connected to the router via Ethernet as a worst case scenario backup. Wherever possible, I recommend this as well.


EXACTLY!!! I have done now 40+ LIve shows with our band in different locattions and found a setup thats is really reliable:
- Connect your XR18 with a cable to an professional Router which supports 2.4GHZ and 5GHz
- Only use 5GHz
- Do not use DHCP use fixed IP adresses
- turn off Broadcast on your router, add your network manually to the devices
- Do not use X-AIR Edit and any Tablet at the same time (because of functinality differences - mute groups, dca's, etc).
- I'm using ipad app only as i don't want to learn the differences between android and ipad app. I'm faster if i know exactly which button i need to press under stress situations instead of searching where the function is on which tablet. Its all precabled in a small, self made, rack.

Here is a pic:


If you follow this rules, you will not have any issue Smiley Wink

PS: But i still have may analog mixer as Backup in the truck, but never had to use it Smiley Wink
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

I think the best advise here Eric is the backup plan, laptop hardwired to ethernet, and or x wired to the ethernet of a dual band router with multiple ports. Not the express.


As for the apple router, the best thing I ever did with mine was sell it. I never got confident enough to do a single gig with it, so troublesome,

As for the problems you mention,I have had this in an area with lots of high power television and Internet providers all trying to over power the other, and I hate to say that this might be case for you? And might be the gig where you next time bring an analogue desk.

Hope you get yourself sorted out.
Cheers

Kev
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Super Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

Eric please see:
http://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?7935-First-quot-big-quot-problem-on-gig

Now my setup is :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw8e8se_5HVGcjFHTDR0WnBLZ28/view



last 1 August : small concert with a hundred people and many hours of practice groups in the theater, but the problem has not occurred more...
I have a sniffer always ready to identify the problem if it happens (I hope ...)
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

P.W. Fenton;55871 wrote:
Here's the thing I think most folks are not realizing. It's not really an X-Air problem. It's our tablet devices, Android, Apple, and Microsoft alike.


Amen brother!

I ran sound over 4th of July for a band that uses the Mackie DL1608 with an ipad and apple router.

Constant disconnects all night.. in a rural setting, outside in a backyard. I sat front row with the ipad. Disconnect and reconnected probably 50 times in a 4 hour gig. It wasn't my gear so I didn't try to tweak anything.. especially not in a live setting. But it was frustrating. But it wasnt the mixer's fault.
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

If I HAVE TO buy additional hardware and complicate the whole setup just to make this work, I will sell it on eBay and move back to a mixer with a control surface like the PreSonus or Soundcraft boards. Use the iPad only to tweak and set up monitors. All this added stuff defeats the value proposition in my book. When did we, as consumers, decide we had to live with less than what was promised? I refuse, now and forever.