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Contributor - Level 2

A former believer turns sour

As I've used the XR18 more I was gaining more confidence in it, UNTIL last night. I probably experienced every issue that's been listed in the forum so I won't repeat. Let's just say Connection Lost was the message of the night. I was no more than 20 ft from the Xr as the radio signal flies and could usually see the antenna visually. So, anybody know the following:

1. My Airport Utility showed that the channel I was on had other competitors so I changed it - I thought. Later, Airport showed the Xr was still on the old channel. Can this not be changed from the iPad app? Sure looks like it can.

2. Airport showed my Xr signal was about 20db above the competitors. That should be enough for capture in most radio systems, clearly not here. Anyone with test gear ever check this out.

3. During break, I restarted several things trying to get the channel to change. Once it finally reestablished communication it took forever to update. Several scribble strip labels never did update although the colors did. Is there no periodic refresh to make sure iPad and Xr stay in sync

Please don't tell me to buy a router or cables; I know all that but bought this thing to make setup quick and easy. Up until now, it has been just that. Now I have increased empathy for others who've posted these issues.
EricBroviak Contributor - Level 2 2015-08-02

2015-08-02

A former believer turns sour

As I've used the XR18 more I was gaining more confidence in it, UNTIL last night. I probably experienced every issue that's been listed in the forum so I won't repeat. Let's just say Connection Lost was the message of the night. I was no more than 20 ft from the Xr as the radio signal flies and could usually see the antenna visually. So, anybody know the following:

1. My Airport Utility showed that the channel I was on had other competitors so I changed it - I thought. Later, Airport showed the Xr was still on the old channel. Can this not be changed from the iPad app? Sure looks like it can.

2. Airport showed my Xr signal was about 20db above the competitors. That should be enough for capture in most radio systems, clearly not here. Anyone with test gear ever check this out.

3. During break, I restarted several things trying to get the channel to change. Once it finally reestablished communication it took forever to update. Several scribble strip labels never did update although the colors did. Is there no periodic refresh to make sure iPad and Xr stay in sync

Please don't tell me to buy a router or cables; I know all that but bought this thing to make setup quick and easy. Up until now, it has been just that. Now I have increased empathy for others who've posted these issues.

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Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

Eric - I can't speak regarding iPads or even the XR18's internal router, but I have different results depending on which Android device I'm using. I'm running a $20 TP-Link router mounted on a light stand - macbook pro hardwired side-stage, sitting with the XR18 on an amp rack. My phone (Samsung S5) has not had a single problem. A new Lenovo 10" tablet froze up a few times on Friday in a smaller bar with only about 50 people. I closed the app, relaunched, and was up and running again and everything seemed to be back to normal...until it happened again during the next set. I previously had this same issue with my older 7" Samsung tablet. But my phone never has any problems. A few weeks ago, I even walked outside of a steel sided building and the phone never missed a beat.
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Contributor - Level 3

Re: A former believer turns sour

Any time you make any settings change in wifi on the XAir you have to slide the network switch over to Ethernet then back to access point to save the changes. Also checking the signal level to see if the XAir is the strongest signal may not be accurate at the time of the signal loss unless you were monitoring the signal a saw the signal changes then this is not accurate. People move about the venue and signal are changing. It most likely could have been s band member a good idea is to have all band members turn off wifi on their phones this will eliminate all close in wifi interference.
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

Here's the thing I think most folks are not realizing. It's not really an X-Air problem. It's our tablet devices, Android, Apple, and Microsoft alike. They are designed to give us the best possible CONNECTION TO THE INTERNET. Consequently, they are very eager to find a connection that provides that connection and our XR units don't provide one. I can't speak about other tablets or laptops, but I can speak about the Apple ones which I use. They are setup to remember the connections you make so that you don't have to. They are also trained to pick the "best" one available. Preferably the best one with INTERNET. So when there is the slightest hiccup in your connection, it will jump to another one that it knows how to connect to. Apple however allows you to tell your iPad or laptop to "forget" certain sources, which makes them only manually selectable thereafter. I make my gadgets "forget" everything but the XR's signal when I use it for that purpose, and I've never had a problem staying connected. I don't think it has anything to do with how much other wi-fi traffic there is. If your tablet has only one connection to maintain, and that address doesn't change, it will not lose it.
P.W. Fenton Hudson, Florida
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

Also checking the signal level to see if the XAir is the strongest signal may not be accurate at the time of the signal loss unless you were monitoring the signal a saw the signal changes then this is not accurate. People move about the venue and signal are changing.


Very true! I was doing a small town street dance last month. There were only 2 other marginal signals in the area when we set up. But once people showed up, my wifi scanner app showed a strong signal that would pop up for a time and then disappear, all while I was standing in the same spot. I chalked it up to someone's phone scanning for an access point.
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Re: A former believer turns sour

Please don't tell me to buy a router or cables;


That seems to be a common response here. I empathize. I have limited time for setup and music making. I don't want take away from that time to futz with gear.

P.W. Fenton;55871 wrote:
It's our tablet devices, Android, Apple, and Microsoft alike...are designed to give us the best possible CONNECTION TO THE INTERNET. Consequently, they are very eager to find a connection that provides that connection and our XR unites don't provide one.


Based on the extended 'dropout' time I've experienced and the venue, I was thinking the same thing. It's like the tablet has the 'roving eye' and is checking out the more attractive options in the room.
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Valued Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

P.W. Fenton;55871 wrote:
It's not really an X-Air problem. It's our tablet devices, Android, Apple, and Microsoft alike. They are designed to give us the best possible CONNECTION TO THE INTERNET. Consequently, they are very eager to find a connection that provides that connection and our XR units don't provide one.

And I expect this to get worse. There's already variants of Android in circulation that refuse to consider the unit connected at all until it is able to verify that it is able to communicate with a certain internet host. These will drop any connection to an isolated network as a hot potato regardless of how strong the signal is. Manufacturers also tend to drop updates with such new features on unsuspecting users with no prior warning. I suspect that the only way to stay safe in the long term is to move to 3rd party versions of the operating systems that leave the user in control. Another option is to get a wifi router with a 4G mobile network link integrated, but this may get expensive unless you also have mechanisms in place to prevent the gizmos on your network from pulling large amounts of data from the internet.

I also strongly recommend against relying on wireless networking for any kind of pubic performance. I will never consider it more than a (very useful) supplement to wired networking.
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

Well...here's the thing; it really doesn't matter which device is the culprit... phone, iPad, Xair, whatever. What matters is that the devices Behringer explicitly states can be used wirelessly with the Xair are not reliable. Period. Is that the fault of your android phone? Your iPad? No, they were not made with the intent of running Xair. It's Behringer that determined that these devices were going to be the wireless control source for their Xair mixer series, and if they cannot get them to work reliably, they'll continue to get posts such as this, which will continue to undermine their product line and relegate it to novelty, rather then a professional tool. Sure, you can buy expensive routers, or ethernet in and have a reliable connection, but that's not how it's advertised. Relying on your users to figure out how to make it reliable, with scant documentation and disorganized resources at their disposal, does not engender a great deal of confidence. Unfortunately, many folks, like me, figure this out after they've bought an Xair, when they expected a plug & play solution, as advertised, to meet their mixing needs.

Honestly, I'm a fan. Love the sound of the thing, the form factor, the whole concept, but every time I take it out to a gig....I'm just waiting for it to fail, which it has 80% of time. Thankfully, when connection is lost, it still works, albeit in a very static state, but the stress of it failing on a gig is just something one doesn't need when performing.

Lastly, it seems that whenever someone posts of problems with connectivity or the device not working as advertised, the response is to buy something additional that will "fix" the problem, or delve headlong into wireless communication protocols/MIDI or MIDI OSC, so they can get it to work reliably, or even that users should generate/populate directions, instructions, how to's, etc., on managing this product in the diverse set of scenarios it's being used in, so that everyone can get the product to work, as advertised. When did this become the responsibility of the customer, vs. the manufacturer? Time to step up, Behringer.
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: A former believer turns sour

Though I fully agree with you on Behringer dropping the ball on this part of the mixer, the abilities of the mixer far outweigh this problem, for me anyway. When I first got mine I was having some quirky issues with the wifi, then started reading about similar issues here. So i was not going to deal with any of it, especially during the pressure of getting a gig up and running. I opted for a $30 Netgear router that really is only 2 more simple connections. I have zero issues with drops or latency even at 100 feet away. I made the simple change and never looked back. Just food for thought.
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Contributor - Level 2

Changing channel

Eric Broviak;55865 wrote:

1. My Airport Utility showed that the channel I was on had other competitors so I changed it - I thought. Later, Airport showed the Xr was still on the old channel. Can this not be changed from the iPad app? Sure looks like it can.


You have to switch from acces point to ethernet and back on the XR18. I don't know why, but the channel change doesn't work until you do this... I had the same problem week ago.
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