Contributor - Level 1

Best option for a second mix using one X32

We've just bought an X32 and really pleased so far.

The main outputs will be used for FOH and I want to be able to interdependently control a second mix for a live broadcast with 2 engineers, one for each mix.

I apreciate the best option would be to have a second desk with the inputs duplicated but unfortunately this is not an option for us right now.

The next best option would be for us to restrict ourselves to 16 channels and internally replicate channels 1-16 on 17-32. Again this is not an option for us as we need more that 16 channels.

So I then think about using pre-fade subgroups sent to the matrix with the second engineer using the PC/tablet SW to create the second mix. The problem I see with this though is that the when using the X32 Edit SW, if I select the pre-fade subgroup and select "Sends on FDR" to build the mix, I take over the faders on the X32 console. This is no good as we can't have the 2 engineers fighting over access to the faders.

Could one option be to use a P16-M as in essence all I need is a stereo monitor mix? My concern here is the basic control surface the engineer will have access to.

One over option I've thought of is using the X-USB to stream all 32 channels to laptop and using something like Reaper (possibly with the X-Touch) to have full independent control of all channels. My concern here is latency if we are going X32 -> Laptop -> Video desk.

Any thoughts people have would be appreciated. Thanks
RichSilley Contributor - Level 1 2016-03-02

2016-03-02

Best option for a second mix using one X32

We've just bought an X32 and really pleased so far.

The main outputs will be used for FOH and I want to be able to interdependently control a second mix for a live broadcast with 2 engineers, one for each mix.

I apreciate the best option would be to have a second desk with the inputs duplicated but unfortunately this is not an option for us right now.

The next best option would be for us to restrict ourselves to 16 channels and internally replicate channels 1-16 on 17-32. Again this is not an option for us as we need more that 16 channels.

So I then think about using pre-fade subgroups sent to the matrix with the second engineer using the PC/tablet SW to create the second mix. The problem I see with this though is that the when using the X32 Edit SW, if I select the pre-fade subgroup and select "Sends on FDR" to build the mix, I take over the faders on the X32 console. This is no good as we can't have the 2 engineers fighting over access to the faders.

Could one option be to use a P16-M as in essence all I need is a stereo monitor mix? My concern here is the basic control surface the engineer will have access to.

One over option I've thought of is using the X-USB to stream all 32 channels to laptop and using something like Reaper (possibly with the X-Touch) to have full independent control of all channels. My concern here is latency if we are going X32 -> Laptop -> Video desk.

Any thoughts people have would be appreciated. Thanks

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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Best option for a second mix using one X32

SoF on the iPad app is independent of the main desk. You can run a mix using SoF on the iPad while using the physical desk to run the main FOH and monitor mixes with no fader clashes.

Just tried it, works on X32 Edit on the MacBook too.

I'd use a linked pair of MixBusses/outputs for the broadcast mix and use SoF on either X32-Edit or X32-Mix
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Contributor - Level 3

Re: Best option for a second mix using one X32

You and the broadcast engineer will only be fighting over faders if you both try to mix the same mix at the same time. If he only ever mixes mixbus1+2 on a tablet/PC, and you only ever mix anywhere except mixbus1+2 on the console surface, you won't have a problem. IIRC there's a setting in x32 edit (Setup>Global>Presentation Mode) to ensure that x32 edit won't follow the console screens, so you can build separate mixes on both devices at the same time.

Using a p16 isn't ideal; you're limited to 16 channels, and you've said you need more than that. It's not just the extra inputs to consider, but also the FX returns. Also consider the room acoustics. Your reverb FX are probably tweaked to sound good with the room's natural acoustics. If you are listening to the mix outside the room (eg you're listening to a broadcast,) chances are those reverb settings that suit the room won't be ideal. The obvious solution is to use a separate reverb engine for the broadcast mix, and\or to patch in ambient mics (both of which require yet more channels that need to fit into the p16.)

If using multiple devices to mix separate mixes is too problematic, then going straight off the preamps into a DAW and using the DAW to mix is probably the best way of doing things. You can use the DAW's plugins and FX, which are probably more powerful than those on the x32, and although there will be some latency, I don't imagine it would be too much, even for a live broadcast. The x32 has a latency of 0.7ms from analogue in to analogue out. It would be even less to get signal into the DAW, as you don't have to go through the last DA conversion. Even if the DAW added 20ms of latency to the signal, that would probably be ok for a "live" (delayed by 20ms) broadcast, unless of course for some reason you tried to sum the live mix with the broadcast mix, in which case you'd get cancellations issues.
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Rock Star - Level 1

Re: Best option for a second mix using one X32

If you could get a few mix busses to reduce your ch count down to 16, the P16M could be used. It IS a 16 ch mixer, per ch eq, panning and vol all independent. It is still only 16 ch's but being p16 the options of each ch source are very wide, a few p16 ch's could be assigned to mix busses or whatever works.
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Best option for a second mix using one X32

I would also opt for the X-USB + DAW solution: video often adds (much) more latency if going thru a video mixer (hardware or software) anyway. You could very well be forced to add some global delay to your mix for video!
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Best option for a second mix using one X32

It was unclear if you need monitor mixes or you are just doing FOH? I think the easiest would be just save a pair of mix busses for the video feed and use it like a monitor mix. This way you still have all 32 channels, you would just have to be creative with your mix busses, if those are limited. If the video engineer just needs to mix just make sure he keeps sends on fader enabled and hes good to go, and could even use the x32 edit software if networked to the console.

I have used this setup when we are limited to one console and I need a monitor engineer. I just set him up with a laptop running the edit software, sync'd from console to PC, enable the sends on fader, dedicate the monitor busses.

The downside is the video/monitor engineer will have to use the FOH preamp gain/eq/ and dynamics on the channels, so really he is only getting fader control. However, if the source is good, fader control is all that is really needed. He would still have the mixbus EQ/Dynamics and insert. If a FX bus is needed for the video feed, the video engineer could use a matrix bus as well, which would enable another, eq/dynamic/insert chain and then send the mixbus and fx bus to the matrix.
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Contributor - Level 1

Re: Best option for a second mix using one X32

Thanks for all the advice.

We will have 6x monitor mixes, so mix busses will have to be managed but I think this will be the way we go to start. I must have been doing something wrong when trying to mix using sends on fader via X32 Edit to cause a fader clash. Will try again to get this working.

I like the X-USB + DAW idea, particularly coupled with the X-Touch, but this will be something to try over time.

Thanks
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Best option for a second mix using one X32

The x32 core is pretty cheap these days and would get you a fully separate console to mix with.

That said, I'd use a prefade mixbus pair as others noted. I also use a matrix mix and a pair of mono mix buses to add drums and dry vocals over the house mix with quite good results for in-house broadcast to the nursery and other remote viewing areas.
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Best option for a second mix using one X32

Rich Silley;71476 wrote:
Thanks for all the advice.

We will have 6x monitor mixes, so mix busses will have to be managed but I think this will be the way we go to start. I must have been doing something wrong when trying to mix using sends on fader via X32 Edit to cause a fader clash. Will try again to get this working.

I like the X-USB + DAW idea, particularly coupled with the X-Touch, but this will be something to try over time.

Thanks


It's easy to get your fader banks mixed up, especially with SoF going on so that's probably what was happening with your fader clashes. Not to difficult to solve though given a bit of hands on time with the desk.