DeanAdams Contributor - Level 2 2015-05-27

2015-05-27

Feedback Suppressor Question(s)

I have a question. I have looked through the threads I can find on using feedback suppressors with X32 system and this scenario doesn't appear to be covered.

Up front I would offer that I do try to tune the room, but I do mobile work and almost every gig is different. So I am looking at adding some automatic feedback suppressors to my rig.

Rig is X32 compact > X32R/S16 stage box at the stage. All the I/O is via stage box.

My question is whether manual inserts of auto FBS like TN6232 or AFS2 at the X32C will work to control the signal chain to manage feedback when the I/O is remote from the stage box? Anybody tried this scenario.

Thanks in advance!
Dean

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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Feedback Suppressor Question(s)

in the meantime: a few Behringer shark dsp110... but yes, if they could implement this DSP code in the X32, I would be happy too !Smiley Wink
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Contributor - Level 1

Re: Feedback Suppressor Question(s)

Scott Bolt;50770 wrote:
I am hoping that a future firmware release will include a feedback suppressor within the X32.

I really hope they do not. In order to advance your skills you need to learn how to use the tools at your disposal. One of the most important tools is an EQ. The X32 has made this easy for you with GEQ, PEQ and even a RTA. I have taught a few beginners how to ring out monitors in no time on this console. You also have this forum, the web and youtube that will teach you how to use the tools and basically answer most any question you could have.
With a lot of studying and research, and a lot of practice you will learn how to deal with feedback and stop most of it before it can start.
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Feedback Suppressor Question(s)

Stacy Mills;65964 wrote:
I really hope they do not.

I hope they do not implement that either. There are so many people in the audiences that think a good mix is that mix where nothing screams till the end and that is all... and there are the "smart" ones, those that heard remotely about this console or ignorantly using one, trashing you ".. meh, he's just using that feedback thingie.." . so if you made that for professionals, leave it to them, it will probably make more sense in the xr family, please leave my ego alone..
If you really need that thing, buy that thing. There're plenty alternatives and damn cheap ones. I bought that console to stand in front of it and when I'm at it, I can deal with feddback no matter when, no matter where. If you don't plan to stay with your eyes and ears on this job, then maybe this is not the thing for you to use. I'm always amazed when I see this kind of requests... how bad is this feedback problem for you? Is it that bad? .. well, LEARN TO PROPER MIX NOW! , or you just DON'T LOVE IT !
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Super Contributor - Level 2

Re: Feedback Suppressor Question(s)

I was at a church the other day checking out how they do things and how the system sounds and the coverage of it. The sound guy got distracted by someone that was interrupting what he was doing. And at that point for some reason the person making announcements with a handheld wireless mic leans over to talk to someone in the congregation and sticks the mic right into one of the floor monitors. I was surprised that it didn’t blow out the horn. And actually I am not sure it didn’t. I didn’t stay till the end of the service. The feedback was loud. I don’t know why they had that much of the announce mic going into the wedge. But I was thinking that a Feedback suppressor would have clamped down on that before it got as bad as it did. They aren’t using a digital board but are talking to me about buying one. And I can see automatic feedback suppression as being handy for a place like this.

I think a lot of people who want feedback suppressors don’t understand that it doesn’t eliminate feedback but it clamps down on it when it happens. And depending on how it is setup it can really butcher the sound.
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Feedback Suppressor Question(s)

Kevin Maxwell;66010 wrote:
And I can see automatic feedback suppression as being handy for a place like this.

Totally agree with you Kevin, although I stand for what I've said. If you need the bloody thing, just get it. I just don't want to see that, featured in a said professional tool, let alone my tool. I've seen so many, so called "soundguys" with cocky attitudes and their rigs full of sabine's and dfr's all lit up like christmas trees, with filters unreleased from their last gig ...grinning at whoever interested in their already paper sounding mix, that it makes me nauseous..
Not enough that too many ignorants can afford one.. now every one "can" mix too.. bah..
Did I said I don't want that? Smiley Happy))
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Super Contributor - Level 2

Re: Feedback Suppressor Question(s)

Sorin Ene;66013 wrote:
Totally agree with you Kevin, although I stand for what I've said. If you need the bloody thing, just get it. I just don't want to see that, featured in a said professional tool, let alone my tool. I've seen so many, so called "soundguys" with cocky attitudes and their rigs full of sabine's and dfr's all lit up like christmas trees, with filters unreleased from their last gig ...grinning at whoever interested in their already paper sounding mix, that it makes me nauseous..
Not enough that too many ignorants can afford one.. now every one "can" mix too.. bah..
Did I said I don't want that? Smiley Happy))


My point is that the people I am talking about are the kind of people that are buying these mixers. They aren’t meant for just professionals, not at this price point. And sometimes it is better to setup a feedback suppressor for them then have them blowing the horn diaphragms on their monitors. And just because they might build it into a piece of gear doesn’t mean that you have to use it. I really like the flexibility that can be built into digital mixers and then you have the choice of what to use and what not to use. And BTW as far as feedback suppressors built into professional gear I use the DBX DriveRack 4800 DSP all of the time for the house speakers in systems I use (it sells for more than an X32) and it has Automatic feedback suppression built into it and I have never used it.

I setup an installed system in a teen center and we have a DSP (with the settings all locked up) on the amps that limit it and we have feedback suppressors enabled. There are only a few filters and they let go after a short period of time. They used to have problems with damaged speaker components until we setup the system as we did. No one has complained about not enough rig for the gig and it has protected the system.

The times I might consider using a feedback suppressor is when I have setup a monitor that is sounding good and able to rip your head off and the (going deaf) musician wants even more out of it. So to have a floating filter or 2 (that will cut the offending frequency when they do something stupid) isn’t a bad idea. BTW I haven’t blown a horn in a monitor in a long time and I don’t use feedback suppressors on the systems I run but I am not saying that I wouldn’t in the appropriate setting.
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Feedback Suppressor Question(s)

While wireless microphones are a wonderful thing, they are also a pain.

Ever see the lead singer jump off stage and start singing to one of the tables right in front of a speaker stack?

.... yep.... I'll take one of those feedback suppressors Smiley Wink
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Feedback Suppressor Question(s)

Scott Bolt;66021 wrote:
Ever see the lead singer jump off stage and start singing to one of the tables right in front of a speaker stack?


I never had a feedback because of this.

As long as you have a propper set up, and the singer doesn't hold the microphone directly in front of the speakers, you shouldn't get any feed back.

Only theatre headsets are susceptible for feedback, because they are omnidirectional and need higher gain.
Lavalier microphones are even worse.

But you are right: Just for the case, it is good to have one. But people should be aware, that a feedback suppressor will destroy the sound, and can make things worse, when you don't realise that you are beyond the limit.
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Feedback Suppressor Question(s)

I never had a problem with that either... in fact I deal with this scenario quite often. From stars that have a rule to go in the audience, to the small and crowded pubs where the house PA is hanging from the (already narrow) stage backwall.. and like Florian said:
Florian Gerstenlauer;66026 wrote:
As long as you have a propper set up, and the singer doesn't hold the microphone directly in front of the speakers, you shouldn't get any feed back.

..and yes, I always go bathroom before the gig..

Happy new year everyone!
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Feedback Suppressor Question(s)

How would setup keep you from feeding back when the singer is standing in front of the speakers instead of behind the speakers?

Granted, a good hyper/super cardioid microphone would help, but still, the fact is that you have changed the physics of the system very radically when you do this.

If you are able to run the system with lots of gain before feedback, then sure, all this would do is eat up a little head room. If you are already close, this will most surely push you over the edge.

What kind of setup are you talking about?