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Set up Routing to apply Reverb to Ultranet VOX send independantly of FOH VOX send

Contributor - Level 2
Hello all,

I'm new to the M32 world (came from 6 years of using SAC) and the effects routing on the M32 is not intuitive at all.
I'm trying to set up a routing scheme for my three Vocalists which would allow me to blend a FOH reverb and an 'in ear' reverb (through the Ultranet outs) independently of each other. The vocalists are pining for me to lather their VOX in reverb but I don't want all that wetness in the FOH mix - it sounds disgusting.
I figured they can have all they want in their 'in ear' monitors, and down in reverb if they so desire, but, after a month with the M32, I have not been able to figure out how to route this properly.
How would this be accomplished?

I have a Plate Reverb installed in FX1 and a Hall Reverb installed in FX2. I'm looking for a way to send different, independent, levels of both of these effects to the FOH and Ultranet outs.
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12 REPLIES 12

Re: Set up Routing to apply Reverb to Ultranet VOX send independantly of FOH VOX send

Contributor - Level 3
Waldy Duester;158555 wrote:
Hello all,

I'm new to the M32 world (came from 6 years of using SAC) and the effects routing on the M32 is not intuitive at all.
I'm trying to set up a routing scheme for my three Vocalists which would allow me to blend a FOH reverb and an 'in ear' reverb (through the Ultranet outs) independently of each other. The vocalists are pining for me to lather their VOX in reverb but I don't want all that wetness in the FOH mix - it sounds disgusting.
I figured they can have all they want in their 'in ear' monitors, and down in reverb if they so desire, but, after a month with the M32, I have not been able to figure out how to route this properly.
How would this be accomplished?

I have a Plate Reverb installed in FX1 and a Hall Reverb installed in FX2. I'm looking for a way to send different, independent, levels of both of these effects to the FOH and Ultranet outs.


Are you using the P16 personal mixers with this? How many sends to the P16 are you using? Do you have any unused Utranet outputs?

Re: Set up Routing to apply Reverb to Ultranet VOX send independantly of FOH VOX send

Super Contributor - Level 2
On the off chance you do use P16M's....The FX to FOH would be handled by main L/R mix as one would do normally and is a separate mix all its own. If you are using the ultranet menu to supply FX to a P16 system, you need to make one or several p16 ch's dedicated to Fx. There are a few ways to do that. You could dedicate P16 ch's to be direct outs of the Fx desired. Direct outs of FX 1L-4R (8 total ch's)in the ultranet out routing menu are direct outs of the fx return ch's. If you have lots of free p16 ch's (not the case usually) that's a good way to go. If not many extra p16 ch's AND you only use a P16M system (without need for traditional monitor mixes) you will likely have most buses and matrix ch's available for p16 ch use. There are several ways to use mixbuses as fx return mixes only OR a single matrix ch that has several fx return mixbuses in it where 1 single p16 ch is your fx returns matrix ch. You can also use a mix bus as a single vocal ch with fx returns in it as desired. EX. Mixbus 1 is Joe's vocal ch, in mix 1 send only Joe's vocal, say ch 15, and the Fx returns of fx 1 and fx 2 to taste. Say then P16 ch15=Mixbus 1=Joe's vocal with fx. Even if you are using some buses for traditional monitors you will probably have a few to spare for fx return use.

Re: Set up Routing to apply Reverb to Ultranet VOX send independantly of FOH VOX send

Contributor - Level 2
Gary Higgins;158594 wrote:
........ You can also use a mix bus as a single vocal ch with fx returns in it as desired. EX. Mixbus 1 is Joe's vocal ch, in mix 1 send only Joe's vocal, say ch 15, and the Fx returns of fx 1 and fx 2 to taste. Say then P16 ch15=Mixbus 1=Joe's vocal with fx. Even if you are using some buses for traditional monitors you will probably have a few to spare for fx return use.


Thanks for the replies guys.

I'm not using a P16 system but I am using the ultranet menu (in the routing section) to route my signals to the in-ear system that is being used.

As I was thinking this over, the scenario that Gary describes above; "the option of using a mixbus to send a vocal and it's blended FX to a single ultranet channel" came to my mind. I have no available ultranet channels but I do have plenty of available mixbus channels. I have three vocalists and I could easily dedicate a mixbus channel to each vocalist and then send the mixbus to their 'vocal' channel in the ultranet menu.
I'll have to experiment with this in the coming days.

Re: Set up Routing to apply Reverb to Ultranet VOX send independantly of FOH VOX send

Contributor - Level 3
Waldy Duester;158700 wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys.

I'm not using a P16 system but I am using the ultranet menu (in the routing section) to route my signals to the in-ear system that is being used.

As I was thinking this over, the scenario that Gary describes above; "the option of using a mixbus to send a vocal and it's blended FX to a single ultranet channel" came to my mind. I have no available ultranet channels but I do have plenty of available mixbus channels. I have three vocalists and I could easily dedicate a mixbus channel to each vocalist and then send the mixbus to their 'vocal' channel in the ultranet menu.
I'll have to experiment with this in the coming days.


What IEM system are you using that receives the Ultranet send?

Re: Set up Routing to apply Reverb to Ultranet VOX send independantly of FOH VOX send

Contributor - Level 2
Hi Kevin,

I'm using an AVIOM in ear mixing system. I have the Ultranet channels routed to AES50 A 17-32 and then ADAT out from the DL32 to two ADA8000's that feed the AVIOM system.

Works great.

Now I just need to figure out the routing to add Reverb Effects that are independent of the reverb that I'm sending to FOH.

Here's what I'm trying to achieve:
1) I have three vocalists
2) On their own in-ear channel, each vocalist would like some reverb in their in-ear mix
3) On their own channel, I'd like to mix some reverb into the FOH at different levels than what they want in their individual in-ear mix.

I did some more experimenting and I see a major shortcoming with the side chain effect routing on the M32. If I understand the effects routing/processing correctly:

1) The reverb installed in FX1 will process all vocals sent to it simultaneously. Let's say I'm sending VOX 1 at -20dB and VOX 2 at -10dB to FX1, they both get processed by the same unit.

2) The return on FX1 will always have the same ratio of loudness of the two VOX signals no matter where I send this return. If I send to FOH and Bus 2 I can vary the loudness of the return from FX1 differently in each the FOH and Bus 2 but I cannot vary the ratio of loudness between VOX 1 FX1 and VOX2 FX1 differently in FOH and Bus 2.

Am I understanding this correctly?

Re: Set up Routing to apply Reverb to Ultranet VOX send independantly of FOH VOX send

Contributor - Level 3
Waldy Duester;158746 wrote:
Hi Kevin,

I'm using an AVIOM in ear mixing system. I have the Ultranet channels routed to AES50 A 17-32 and then ADAT out from the DL32 to two ADA8000's that feed the AVIOM system.

Works great.

Now I just need to figure out the routing to add Reverb Effects that are independent of the reverb that I'm sending to FOH.

Here's what I'm trying to achieve:
1) I have three vocalists
2) On their own in-ear channel, each vocalist would like some reverb in their in-ear mix
3) On their own channel, I'd like to mix some reverb into the FOH at different levels than what they want in their individual in-ear mix.

I did some more experimenting and I see a major shortcoming with the side chain effect routing on the M32. If I understand the effects routing/processing correctly:

1) The reverb installed in FX1 will process all vocals sent to it simultaneously. Let's say I'm sending VOX 1 at -20dB and VOX 2 at -10dB to FX1, they both get processed by the same unit.

2) The return on FX1 will always have the same ratio of loudness of the two VOX signals no matter where I send this return. If I send to FOH and Bus 2 I can vary the loudness of the return from FX1 differently in each the FOH and Bus 2 but I cannot vary the ratio of loudness between VOX 1 FX1 and VOX2 FX1 differently in FOH and Bus 2.

Am I understanding this correctly?

I assume that you had the AVIOM system already so that is why you are using that. I don’t know how you can accomplish what you want (if I understand you correctly) with only the 16 sends that you can get thru the Ultranet whether thru AVIOM or P16 systems. Unless you can sub mix using some Mix Bus sends.

I think the best way to get the kind of flexibility that you are looking for is to use either an X32 Rack or one of the other X or M mixers as a monitor mixer. If you take the preamps from the M32 and feed it to the X32 Rack and then use the Rack as a monitor mixer you then have access to all of the channels and FX to send that to the IEMs. I was a sub-contractor on a job where they put in the P16 and I saw all of the problems they were trying to overcome because of that choice. For some people the P16 work just great but if you can’t easily do it in 16 sends then it isn’t the best way to do it. I say 16 sends because we had to use a bunch of Mix Bus sends (sub mixing) to make the P16 work.

Re: Set up Routing to apply Reverb to Ultranet VOX send independantly of FOH VOX send

Contributor - Level 2
Thanks Kevin,

Yes, we had the Avioms and integrated them into the M32 system.

I still have a few more ideas to pursue. If anything pans out, I'll post back to this thread so others can learn as well.

Re: Set up Routing to apply Reverb to Ultranet VOX send independantly of FOH VOX send

Super Contributor - Level 2
Waldy Duester;158746 wrote:
Hi Kevin,

I'm using an AVIOM in ear mixing system. I have the Ultranet channels routed to AES50 A 17-32 and then ADAT out from the DL32 to two ADA8000's that feed the AVIOM system.

Works great.

Now I just need to figure out the routing to add Reverb Effects that are independent of the reverb that I'm sending to FOH.

Here's what I'm trying to achieve:
1) I have three vocalists
2) On their own in-ear channel, each vocalist would like some reverb in their in-ear mix
3) On their own channel, I'd like to mix some reverb into the FOH at different levels than what they want in their individual in-ear mix.



Interesting with the ADA's and that aviom system, pretty cool it can be done!

If you have a spare fx 1-4 slot you could use a duplicate verb with identical settings (or different) just for monitors. You can use a direct out of that fx as a p16 ch. and each person can choose how much of the verb ch it likes...or if you are not using traditional monitor buses and have some to spare, each vocalist could use a mixbus for its own vocal ch and fx return as a p16 ch. Make sure you don't return the duplicate monitor fx (or more than 1 duplicate) to the main mix. It will take some futzing to get right but could work...worth a try perhaps.

Re: Set up Routing to apply Reverb to Ultranet VOX send independantly of FOH VOX send

Contributor - Level 2
Gary Higgins;158764 wrote:
Interesting with the ADA's and that aviom system, pretty cool it can be done!

If you have a spare fx 1-4 slot you could use a duplicate verb with identical settings (or different) just for monitors. You can use a direct out of that fx as a p16 ch. and each person can choose how much of the verb ch it likes...or if you are not using traditional monitor buses and have some to spare, each vocalist could use a mixbus for its own vocal ch and fx return as a p16 ch. Make sure you don't return the duplicate monitor fx (or more than 1 duplicate) to the main mix. It will take some futzing to get right but could work...worth a try perhaps.


Thanks Gary,

Your suggestion of a duplicate verb in a spare FX slot just for monitoring is exactly where I was going to go next. I do have a spare FX1-4 slot to try this approach. I have also laid the ground work of the dedicated MixBuses for each vocalist so I can mix their dry vocal with the verb and send that mix to their in ear channel.
I'll test that out this week and let you guys know how it went.

Waldy