V3 FX question (stereo effect on Mains)

[DanielBecker]

Specifically regarding the Combinator:

In this new XEdit I have the option of FX4L or FX4R for input at the Main's Channel tab. You can't pick both. Does it still go stereo if I pick one or the other?

I noticed if I choose in the Main, Channel, Input tab FX4L or FX4R and return to the Combinator, it shows Insert Main LR in both windows and it's turned on.

This is different from the XAir Edit where you simply choose the FX that the effect is on. There is not the option of FXL or FXR.

[GaryHiggins]

When I put the (stereo) Combinator as FX4 and looked at the drop down menu below it I only had an insert option of Main L/R not either or. Not the same options if I put the same effect in FX 1-3 slots-only get the word 'insert' (no main L/R). I suspect it makes no difference if you choose L or R from the Main ch menu insert window itself but I can't confirm that. Perhaps this is a bug.

[DanielBecker]

Gary Higgins;85031 wrote:
When I put the (stereo) Combinator as FX4 and looked at the drop down menu below it I only had an insert option of Main L/R not either or. Not the same options if I put the same effect in FX 1-3 slots-only get the word 'insert' (no main L/R). I suspect it makes no difference if you choose L or R from the Main ch menu insert window itself but I can't confirm that. Perhaps this is a bug.

Yes, at the FX tab, you have the option of Main L/R. Initially it shows Main M/C. You have to click in each Insert window it seems, then it shows an on button as On.

If I then got to the Main Channel tab and in Input choose the FX4L or FX4R I can go back to the FX4 tab and now in the Insert window is the option of Main LR with the On button changed to an FX On button. In the drop down menu is the option still for Main M/C.

It just seem odd and I would like to know for sure from someone as I can not test this currently. I'm just playing with the software. This is different from the XAir Edit software for my XR18. I am currently preparing my self for the X32 Core I have.

[RichardYClark]

It is the same in any FX slot that you choose. The drop down list is for the input source to the effect, which is normally mono. Hence all the Busses and Main M/C as sources. But when selected as an Insert effect the source can be stereo for two channel effects. And the Insert label changes to that of the selected source when you enable an Insert effect on a channel or a bus (inc. the Main L/R). However a lot of the FX in the first four slots are time/delay type effects which you wouldn't normally use as Insert FX and which expect a mono source feed.

Note that the Insert points in channels and busses also list the Aux sends as destinations as well as the internal FX slots.

So it does make some sense if you can work out the logic.

[DanielBecker]

Richard YClark;85039 wrote:
It is the same in any FX slot that you choose. The drop down list is for the input source to the effect, which is normally mono. Hence all the Busses and Main M/C as sources. But when selected as an Insert effect the source can be stereo for two channel effects. And the Insert label changes to that of the selected source when you enable an Insert effect on a channel or a bus (inc. the Main L/R). However a lot of the FX in the first four slots are time/delay type effects which you wouldn't normally use as Insert FX and which expect a mono source feed.

Note that the Insert points in channels and busses also list the Aux sends as destinations as well as the internal FX slots.

So it does make some sense if you can work out the logic.

I understand this. But, in the V3 version, In the Main's Channel tab, under input you only have 1 insert option not 2. Thus, the dropdown list gives a choice of FX4LCMB or FX4RCMB (See picture) (combinatory on FX4). Yet, at the Combinator it is showing the 2 options for L/R.

Does this mean, that choosing either FX4R or FX4L will still send the stereo signal from the Main through the Combinator or, does this mean one side of the Main's is going through the Combinator to then come out stereo?

[KevinMaxwell]

Daniel Becker;85045 wrote:
I understand this. But, in the V3 version, In the Main's Channel tab, under input you only have 1 insert option not 2. Thus, the dropdown list gives a choice of FX4LCMB or FX4RCMB (See picture) (combinatory on FX4). Yet, at the Combinator it is showing the 2 options for L/R.

Does this mean, that choosing either FX4R or FX4L will still send the stereo signal from the Main through the Combinator or, does this mean one side of the Main's is going through the Combinator to then come out stereo?

I was trying to figure out what you were saying and I see that you have the ability to select either “Insert-Main LR” or “Main M/C”. I see that you have selected the Stereo Combinator because in your screen shot it indicates Fx4L:CMB. It is interesting because you can select in the FX1-4 screen different points for both inserts. I have found in other cases just because you can select something doesn’t mean it will route things like that. If you select one to be insert and one to be main in the FX1-4 screen they turn on and off separately. If you set them both to be the same then they turn on and off together. I don’t know exactly what that means but it is another clue.

On some digital mixers I have used, these points would either be only for the signal being routed out of the console and not if you were to then send the LR to a matrix and you would have to select the other insert point for it to be in the signal chain to the matrix. I don’t know if that’s the case here but I don’t think it is.

It looks like someone would have to play around with this configuration to see what it is really doing. But that would probably be very hard to hear the differences with the Combinator and it might make sense to test the routing with a dual EQ to see what is really happening. And then try a stereo EQ next. I don’t have a mixer to try this on. In about a week I may have one to play with for a little while. Is there anyone else (that has a mixer available) that’s good at tracing this kind of thing that wants to play with it. I would be interested in the results.

[GaryHiggins]

I put the stereo combinator in each slot 1-4 to check. In slots 1-3, the drop down menu, the only insert option I get is "insert" In slot 4 I got "insert main l/r" assuming it reflects where it was placed...when I look at the main ch, look at the ch tab (like your jpeg) it is just one either/or option...I would still contend it likely makes no difference which you choose and probably should not have both in that menu but only a single l/r choice like the fx drop down. I too am just looking at software, no actual hardware connected, maybe it changes when connected.

[KevinMaxwell]

Gary Higgins;85053 wrote:
I put the stereo combinator in each slot 1-4 to check. In slots 1-3, the drop down menu, the only insert option I get is "insert" In slot 4 I got "insert main l/r" assuming it reflects where it was placed...when I look at the main ch, look at the ch tab (like your jpeg) it is just one either/or option...I would still contend it likely makes no difference which you choose and probably should not have both in that menu but only a single l/r choice like the fx drop down. I too am just looking at software, no actual hardware connected, maybe it changes when connected.

I think we posted at about the same time.
Garry I see what you are saying. That is interesting. In FX5-8 you have more options in the pull down assign section. And I noticed that there is a separate Main LR and a Main M/C. so the Main I am seeing in FX4 is the Main M/C, the Mono or Center output depending on how you have that configured.

So if Daniel selects “Insert-Main LR” it should work the way he wants. But in the channel selection area I would select the left one just in case it follows the standard plugin methodology and left is 1 and right is 2 and if you select it the other way around it will swap the left and right.

[DanielBecker]

The option at the FX4 (that is where I have the Combinator currently) will not show the option of Main L/R until you have set the Main Channel Input to one or the other FX4 CMB option. Do this, and then check the FX Tab Combinator and you will see both inserts are set to Main L/R and both are now on.

It is not dependent on which slot the Combinator is in. I just tried it in FX2 and it follows the same thing.

On the XAir Edit (the program that runs the XR mixers) you only have the one option at the channel of choosing FX 1 through 4. Not FX L or R.

[RichardYClark]

Remember that as I pointed out some sends are usually mono and some can be stereo. But it depends on the type of effect and where you are inserting it. Main L/R can only ever be a stereo insert send whilst many other sources can be mono, twin channel or stereo depending on the effect.