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Contributor - Level 2

X-Dante card and AES50 Synchronization Issue

Hi, I am sending audio between two X32 consoles via AES50 successfully. Now, I want to add a Dante card at one console to use for send to Waves Multirack. But support said this isn't possible.

Here is my setup.
I have two full-size X32 consoles. I use one at the stage for monitors and the mics plug directly into the back of that console. I have another X32 at FOH and run AES50 between the two consoles.
On the Monitor X32 by the stage:
===========================
The inputs are set to local.
Synchronization is set to Internal

I run an AES50 A out to the second full size X32 console at FOH


On the FOH X32:
===========================
The inputs are set to AES50 A
That console’s Synchronization is set to AES50 A
Both Consoles have the gain split engaged
Both consoles have ver. 3.07 firmware installed
This configuration has worked flawlessly for over a year now.

-->Now here is my question/problem:
I want to run an X-Dante card at FOH (only) so I can run Dante out to my Waves Multirack computer with a Dante virtual sound card installed.
I see that you need to switch the Synchronization to Exp. Card at the FOH console when using the Dante card. Wouldn’t that break the sync between the FOH and Monitor consoles?

When I ran this by Behringer support they said there is no way that AES50 will work at the same time when using a Dante card due to having to switch the FOH Synchronization to the Dante expansion card. They said that it would negate communication to the other console or to a digital snake like an S16/32 via the AES50 protocol. They also said there is no work-around.
Can anyone shed some light on this? Does anyone have an idea on how I can get this to work? It seems strange that you wouldn’t be able to use any of the Behringer snakes or AES50 for anything while using the x-Dante card. Aren't the AES50 protocol and Dante two separate entities?
I was just about to purchase the X-Dante card but stopped cold when I received the email from support.
Thanks!

JackSchmer Contributor - Level 2 2017-02-10

2017-02-10

X-Dante card and AES50 Synchronization Issue

Hi, I am sending audio between two X32 consoles via AES50 successfully. Now, I want to add a Dante card at one console to use for send to Waves Multirack. But support said this isn't possible.

Here is my setup.
I have two full-size X32 consoles. I use one at the stage for monitors and the mics plug directly into the back of that console. I have another X32 at FOH and run AES50 between the two consoles.
On the Monitor X32 by the stage:
===========================
The inputs are set to local.
Synchronization is set to Internal

I run an AES50 A out to the second full size X32 console at FOH


On the FOH X32:
===========================
The inputs are set to AES50 A
That console’s Synchronization is set to AES50 A
Both Consoles have the gain split engaged
Both consoles have ver. 3.07 firmware installed
This configuration has worked flawlessly for over a year now.

-->Now here is my question/problem:
I want to run an X-Dante card at FOH (only) so I can run Dante out to my Waves Multirack computer with a Dante virtual sound card installed.
I see that you need to switch the Synchronization to Exp. Card at the FOH console when using the Dante card. Wouldn’t that break the sync between the FOH and Monitor consoles?

When I ran this by Behringer support they said there is no way that AES50 will work at the same time when using a Dante card due to having to switch the FOH Synchronization to the Dante expansion card. They said that it would negate communication to the other console or to a digital snake like an S16/32 via the AES50 protocol. They also said there is no work-around.
Can anyone shed some light on this? Does anyone have an idea on how I can get this to work? It seems strange that you wouldn’t be able to use any of the Behringer snakes or AES50 for anything while using the x-Dante card. Aren't the AES50 protocol and Dante two separate entities?
I was just about to purchase the X-Dante card but stopped cold when I received the email from support.
Thanks!

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Contributor - Level 3

Re: X-Dante card and AES50 Synchronization Issue

0 experience with that particular setup, but in my head it should be possible. AFAIK the x-dante card will generate its own clock, so you should keep that as clock master in your system. This is why the FOH console gets set to Exp Card, not internal or AES50. Of course if the FOH console is now getting clock from the exp card, but the monitor console is setting its own sync (Internal,) that'll be a problem, so you'll need to change the monitor console to clock from AES50A. However, I'm reliably informed that just because something is in my head it isn't necessarily real.

The OP in this thread, is using dante and 2 consoles (I can only assume they're connected with AES50,) and all seems well for him. Maybe PM him, or others who responded in that thread with dante experience and see what they say.
Contributor - Level 2

Re: X-Dante card and AES50 Synchronization Issue

Thanks Craig, one of the people in that thread seems to be pretty active regarding Dante. So I will PM him and see what I can find out.
In the meantime, if anyone else wants to chime in on the subject.....
Contributor - Level 3

Re: X-Dante card and AES50 Synchronization Issue

Hi!

I don't know multirack. But if it supports ASIO it should be possible.

I use X32-Rack with 2x S16 as Monitor-Mix and X32-Desk as FoH with a X-Dante on each side. I can route the 32 Channels from Rack or Desk (or mixed) to my DAW.
AES50 B is connected on Rack to 2x S16 and AES50 A is connected to X32-Desk.
Clock comes from X-Dante on Desk for AES50 A and the X32-Rack get clock from AES50 A.

I can switch in packs of 8 channels from everywhere to PA or DANTE and to my DAWs.

It is a little bit tricky to understand routing. Espacially the output-routing. But it works.
(During configprocess it is important sometimes press "PAUSE" and have a beer!)

You can find a similary config in X32-WIKI. The DANTE-routing I configured by (free) DANTE-Controler via DANTE-Virtuel Soundcard in my DAW.

http://behringerwiki.music-group.com/index.php?title=How_do_I_share_signals_over_AES50_Supermac_netw...

greets!
Contributor - Level 3

Re: X-Dante card and AES50 Synchronization Issue

(During configprocess it is important sometimes press "PAUSE" and have a beer!)


Until you 'pause' too often and can't remember how to get back to where you were. Smiley Wink
Contributor - Level 2

Re: X-Dante card and AES50 Synchronization Issue

Hi Fritz, thanks for your input. Yes, Waves Multirack does use/supports ASIO drivers. And looking at your setup it is basically the same with the exception that I would only be using one X-Dante card just to go to the Waves Multirack or a DAW at FOH.

The actual problem is when I need to switch the Synchronization from AES50 to the Dante card at the FOH X32.

The way it is setup now is:
X32 Monitor console Synchronization is set to "Internal"
X32 FOH console Synchronization is set to "AES50 A"

This works perfectly when using AES50 between the two X32 consoles.

But when I add the X-Dante card to the FOH I would need to switch the Synchronization to the Dante Card. This is where Behringer support is telling me that it will break the connection between the two consoles.

So far, I cannot verify either way.

Thanks!
Contributor - Level 3

Re: X-Dante card and AES50 Synchronization Issue

Hi!

You can only have one clock. In my setup the clock is DANTE.
But if (for example) the X32-Rack is set to sync with "card" then the AES50 busses transport the clock to all other units. You cannot set any unit to another signal-bus if this bus inot directly connected to your "bus-route"
Example:
Config is: Desk-AES50A-><-Rack-><- AES50B<->S16->S16
In this case the DESK-sync is AES50A, RACK-sync is "card" and both S16 are synced with AES50B from Rack.
If you set X32-Desk to internal or card the wrong (not directly clock-connected) bus will produce annoying noise.

In your setup it should be possible to set FoH-sync to DANTE and Monitor-sync to AES50A. Then the clock runs from FoH via AES50 to Monitor. If you set monitor to "internal" they could not "talk" over the same time-base.

Hope it helps!
Contributor - Level 2

Re: X-Dante card and AES50 Synchronization Issue

Hey Fritz! Yes, that does help! Ok, well now I feel much better. I can't wait to test this.
Since the inputs on the monitor X32 are set to local I had it in my head that the clock has to be set that way as well. But if it can get the clock down the AES50 line, that is perfect.

Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it.
Jack
Contributor - Level 3

Re: X-Dante card and AES50 Synchronization Issue

I was shocked when I read the original post. I am just killing time waiting for UPS to deliver my Dante Card today.

I use two M32R's. One FOH and one at monitor world. I also use a DL16 stage box. attached to the monitor board. I'm planning on using the Dante Out from the monitor mixer to a DBX VENU360-D to the monitors.

If I understand what Fritz said, the mixer with the Dante Card should sync to Dante.
Anything else attached via AES50 should sync to the mixer with the card.
Is that right?
Contributor - Level 3

Re: X-Dante card and AES50 Synchronization Issue

Yep, so you'd set your monitor console to sync from exp card (which will be your X-Dante.) The monitor console will pass that clock down both AES50 sockets to the FOH console and the DL16. You'd set the FOH console to sync to AES50X, and make sure the DL16 isn't in a mode where it's trying to be clock master itself.