XR18 Scene storage and recall

Contributor - Level 2
I am very pleased with my XR18, but I have an issue with scene storage and recall.
When you store scene setting in software you need to go through the process of loading a file, selecting the scene to change the setting. When you do this the file disappears from the screen and to change to another scene you have to go through the process again.
Unlike snap shots where the file stays on the screen which enable you to change setting very quickly.
Snap shots only have a capacity of 60 setting which is insufficient for a complicated show which might need many more scenes and sub-scenes.
Please can we have an upgrade of the firmware to save scenes to enable quick changes using a permanent display of scenes (as with snap shots)
Although you can use Mute groups to facilitate quick setting changes within a scene there is a limit of 4.
Please can you update the firmware too save many scenes (Say 200+)

Peter Patrick (UK user)
Tags (1)

Re: XR18 Scene storage and recall

Volunteer Moderator
Hi Peter,

The X-Air line of digital consoles was not designed for serious theatre work, such as you described. It was meant more for the small groups doing small events that require very little in scenes, etc. I have my doubts that there will be any expansion on its snapshot capabilities.

If you do need this for theatre as described, there are 2 options.
1. Seriously consider getting an X32 Rack. It is a bit bigger, a bit more cost-wise, but a huge jump in show/scene/snippet capabilities, expansion and maturity. I have both the X32 Rack(s) and XR18 and will always prefer the X32 Rack for any theatrical needs.
2. If you really need to use the XR18, consider using the X-Air Live Toolbox (https://sourceforge.net/projects/xairlivetoolbox/) with it's tidbits capability. Tidbits are snippets on steroids that have a different format. Plus you can add as many tidbits to the list as you want. The strategy would be more like the Show/Scene/Snippet of the X32, where snapshots would be used when a lot of changes would be required (tidbits can launch snapshots) and tidbits would be used for smaller changes (mutes, EQ, etc.) which is typical between sections of a drama.
Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator

XR18 Scene Storage and Recall

Contributor - Level 2
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your quick response which was much appreciated.

Before I ask for some help from you I would just like to explain my usage of the XR18.
It is primarily used for small local organisations' productions of musicals (Happy Days, Boogie Nights etc). The venues are often restricted in space which makes the XR18 ideal, as it can be placed away from the operational area for scripts etc. where fader levels can be instantly controlled by a small Laptop if required during a show. Although the X32 would do the job the advantage of the small (tucked away) XR18 would be lost. It seems to me that if the snapshot storage was even extended to 128 slots it would be a worthwhile improvement.
I would hope that you would be supportive of that small change.

Now for your suggestion re the X-Air Live Tool Box which you recommended to me some time ago in connection with the Auto Fade software before it was incorporated in an upgrade.

Yes I will try the Tool Box, but would appreciate some help. Although many years ago when computing was reasonable new (before 2000) I could write and amend machine code as it was called, but am some what lost with the present machine software.

What I would like to do with the Toolbox is to enable it to quickly change Mute settings on and off in a scene. When I say quickly I mean with a single "click" if possible. I would envisage something like up to say 8 changes per scene where each change Mutes some new channels at the same time as unmuting some others. I assume this is possible with the Toolbox, but would like some further guidance as to how to achieve it. (The normal software only allow 4 mute groups which are difficult with on/off overlaps on a channel)

I am not sure what the command setting for Mute changes are in Toolbox and wonder if you could point me to where the codes etc might be found? Also how to recall a group of changes (tidbits) for instant changes

I'm sorry to be a nuisance but would appreciate you further help.

I have used Behringer products for more years than I would like to mention and am not changing now. The Music Group products are excellent.

Kind Regards
Peter Patrick

Re: XR18 Scene storage and recall

Volunteer Moderator
Hi Peter,

Thanks for providing the background. That gives me a better understanding of what you are trying to accomplish. I have also had occasions of events that had not taken into account the need for FOH position or any equipment space. I have been able to tuck one of my X32 Racks in a corner (or side of stage), wander around the venue with my trusty tablet and get the job done. Now that I also have the XR18, I would probably consider using it instead, as long as the setup wasn't that complex.

The snapshot feature is a fairly recent addition to the X-Air consoles. I'm not sure why it was limited to 64 (DSP limitations?) and it may be something they may consider expanding. I do know that the market they are targeting for the X-Air is not theatrical. Then again, they have surprised me in the past with what they have come out with in features.

Regarding Live Toolbox, that is something we have control over it's features, since it is 3rd party open source and software based. Thanks for the fade suggestion which I added in the last release. I'm hoping to get out the next release (maybe this weekend) which will add XFade (cross fade - DJ style) and expanded Store and Recall in order to copy things like mixbus mixes, etc.

Your requirements of multiple muting/unmuting will fit very well with tidbits. I think you will find the OSC coding fairly straightforward. For example, if you need ch 1-3 muted and 4-5 unmuted, the tidbit would be as follows

#1.1# "Act 1, scene 3"
# (on is opposite to mute)
# mute ch 1-3
/ch/01/mix/on off
/ch/02/mix/on off
/ch/03/mix/on off
# unmute ch 4-5
/ch/04/mix/on on
/ch/05/mix/on on

Doing it this way provides you virtually unlimited mute groups and is programmable. I would be more than willing to help you get started with making the necessary tidbits. The list of OSC commands can be found in the Cmd Editor screen.

For running a show, I doubt you will reach the limit of tidbits (I believe it is limited to the computer's memory) and can be triggered using an optional popup window with a button that can be clicked on or use the spacebar.

I'm thinking we should start a new thread regarding this, since we have diverted from your initial feature request.
Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator

Re: XR18 Scene storage and recall

Contributor - Level 3
A button matrix addition would be great so you can have many (32?) custom named buttons with assigned tidbits would be very useful for instant recall of presets/mutes/EQ on-off etc.

Re: XR18 Scene storage and recall

Volunteer Moderator
Thanks Richard. I have actually contemplated making some form of customizable screen for some time, but wasn't sure what format would be best. Your suggestion is a very good one and could be developed without a lot of effort. Let me work on it.
Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator

XR18 Scene Storage and Recall

Contributor - Level 2
Hi Paul,

I have managed to program the Live Tool Box with Mutes, fader levels and some other commands, and have set up a trial show, for which I thank you for your help.
I have down loaded the latest up date which says there are enhanced commands. I am particular interested it the command for "Store" and "Recall" do you mean snapshot store and recall?
The text suggest that it is something else but I cannot send, etc using the suggested examples.

Please can you help with full command detail for the Store and recall.

Thanks once again for your patience, and help.

Peter Patrick (UK User)

Re: XR18 Scene storage and recall

Volunteer Moderator
Hi Peter,

The X-Air Live Toolbox User Manual can be found in the documents folder (https://sourceforge.net/projects/xairlivetoolbox/files/Documents/).

Store and Recall are for storing settings into Live Toolbox internal memory (0..5) for later recall. This has nothing to do with snapshots. If you want to launch a snapshot, you would use the tidbit command Launch (eg. Launch snap 1). If you are wanting to store to a snapshot, it can be done with the /-snap/save command.
Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator

Tool Box control

Contributor - Level 2
Hi Paul,

I have now had the opportunity of programming 2 musical shows using the tool box with the XR18. All is well, the number of changes required for one show (Happy Days ) was 100.
The setting can be changed almost instantly which is better than the XR18 software.
However I think I have found a "bug" in tool box , I can set the headamps using the Syntax /headamp/01/gain for the channels, but when I use "01" channel it changes channel 11 as well. It is not possible to set channel 11 only with channel 1!!!!
Can you help?
I have also been unable to find the OSC command to change the preamp/headamp for the Aux channel, again can you help?
I am very pleased with the tool box and will definitely be using it for shows etc when many changes are required. The Snapshot facility in the XR18 firmware will be used to save channel heading etc and also to save changes during rehearsal sound checks, to facilitate amending the change data in the tool box.
I trust my comments are helpful.

Re: XR18 Scene storage and recall

Contributor - Level 2
Peter Patrick;72777 wrote:
I have also been unable to find the OSC command to change the preamp/headamp for the Aux channel

This should be:
Values are floats between 0 and 1 in 0.015625 increments (65 separate values in total) that represent -12 to 20 in 0.5 increments.

I'll leave Paul to comment on the rest Smiley Happy