Contributor - Level 2

Issue with Multi-Trigger

I believe there is an issue with the Multi-Trigger mode on the Model D. My unit has been in 1.05 since I received it about a week ago.

I made a video to demonstrate the issue here https://photos.app.goo.gl/of3iYZiVvIBgnmPx2
I compare the re-trigger mode to another synth of mine, the Prophet Rev2. I use the Rev2 as a controller for the Model D.

I start on the Rev2 and point to the Model D when I switch to it. I switch back and forth a few times but try to point to the active unit when I switch. The difference in sound should be apparent enough.

The Issue: I'm not really sure how to describe it but it seems like the Multi-Trigger mode is definitely not functioning like any other synth I've used. As you can see later in the video, any single key release on the Model D while in Multi-Trigger mode causes a key repeat. This makes it nearly impossible to use it in a musical sense.

You'd have to be so precise about hitting one key at a time that it renders the Multi-Trigger mode useless because you might as well have left it in Legato if you planned on strictly avoiding key overlaps.

I have tested this with low, high and last note priority and it seems to make no difference.
PhilroyJenkins Contributor - Level 2 2018-04-16

2018-04-16

Issue with Multi-Trigger

I believe there is an issue with the Multi-Trigger mode on the Model D. My unit has been in 1.05 since I received it about a week ago.

I made a video to demonstrate the issue here https://photos.app.goo.gl/of3iYZiVvIBgnmPx2
I compare the re-trigger mode to another synth of mine, the Prophet Rev2. I use the Rev2 as a controller for the Model D.

I start on the Rev2 and point to the Model D when I switch to it. I switch back and forth a few times but try to point to the active unit when I switch. The difference in sound should be apparent enough.

The Issue: I'm not really sure how to describe it but it seems like the Multi-Trigger mode is definitely not functioning like any other synth I've used. As you can see later in the video, any single key release on the Model D while in Multi-Trigger mode causes a key repeat. This makes it nearly impossible to use it in a musical sense.

You'd have to be so precise about hitting one key at a time that it renders the Multi-Trigger mode useless because you might as well have left it in Legato if you planned on strictly avoiding key overlaps.

I have tested this with low, high and last note priority and it seems to make no difference.

  • 0 Kudos
  • 31 Replies
  • Reply
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Same on the unit I have. Also, if notes on sequencer (Cubase) end the same time the next note plays it cancels the note all together and won't retrigger, won't play at all. I have to end the note further back so the next note will play.
Highlighted
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Christian Claycomb;144349 wrote:
Same on the unit I have. Also, if notes on sequencer (Cubase) end the same time the next note plays it cancels the note all together and won't retrigger, won't play at all. I have to end the note further back so the next note will play.


Interesting. Are you also on 1.05?
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Philroy Jenkins;144362 wrote:
Interesting. Are you also on 1.05?


Yes, also on 1.05.
Contributor - Level 3

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

I also noticed this strange behavior with the Multi-Trigger. I think the problem is that the envelopes should be re-triggered with the Note On messages but not with the Note Off. I hope they can fix it that issue too with the next firmware.

Cheers
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

I am also getting this odd behaviour in "multi trigger" mode.

When I sequence 16th/8th note arp patterns in Cubase (9.5.2.1 Pro) I have to shorten the length of notes by about 10 ticks, otherwise the next note will not trigger. If the beginning of the next note is exactly at the same point as the preceding notes end point, the note will not trigger.

None of my other hardware synths behave like this. There is also strange behaviour when playing manually from an external MIDI device. If I hold one note, then play another note, the next note always triggers as long as I keep the previous not depressed. However, If try to alternate between notes, some notes will not trigger. As others have pointed out, this means you have to be incredibly precise when releasing one note to play the next!

I am seeing this behaviour on Firmware v 1.02 (I have not attempted to update the firmware yet). I am seeing this behaviour on the standard MIDI connection as well as the USB MIDI.

I was starting to think my unit was faulty! This has to be a bug of some kind. This behaviour is annoying and needs to be fixed.
Triber Moderator

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Hi everyone,

Thanks to all for sharing your thoughts with us on how the multi-trigger feature of Model D works. After contacting our engineering team I'm told that the settings of Multi-Trigger mode on Behringer's Model D is the same as the original. So it sounds like there is a difference with how Model D is acting in multi-trigger mode and the way some of our users expect it to work.

They're willing to consider making some changes. Can you please kindly answer the following questions:

1, What is the multi-trigger feature that you had in the mind ?
2, Can any of you who are already comfortable with the current Multi-Trigger settings accept the change to this feature if everyone here agrees on how the feature should work?

Hopefully getting some feedback from end users will allow us to consider the best option moving forward. Thanks again for your input!
Michael Lapke
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Speaking for myself here, I would like a mode that is a proper "mono" mode. The behaviour I describe below is in multi trigger mode.

I am currently trying to use the Model D for a 16th note arp pattern in Cubase. The problem I seem to be having is if the notes are exactly 1/16th note long with NO overlap, there does not seem to be a mode on the D that can play this pattern successfully. All I hear is the first note of the pattern, then nothing.

Here's what that looks like:



However, If I shorten the length of the notes by just a small amount (between 8 & 12 ticks) then it plays back properly. Every note is triggered in the sequence correctly.

Here's what that looks like:



Interestingly, If I lengthen the notes so they overlap, the sequence plays properly and all notes are triggered! I run in to problems when the start and end point of the notes are really close together because the VCA or VCF envelopes don't seem to trigger properly.

If I feed this sequence to a software synth, like Xfer Serum for example and put it in "mono" mode, the notes can be full 16th in length and the sequence plays fine, I do not need to shorten the note lengths in order for it to work.

What mode would the Model D have to be in to achieve this? If it cannot do it, wouldn't it be a good idea for it to have a proper mono mode? Afterall, it is a mono synth! Smiley Happy
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Michael Lapke;144575 wrote:
Hi everyone,
After contacting our engineering team I'm told that the settings of Multi-Trigger mode on Behringer's Model D is the same as the original. So it sounds like there is a difference with how Model D is acting in multi-trigger mode and the way some of our users expect it to work.


I really appreciate your willingness to gather opinions on this specific issue but I felt like I must mention that the Original Model D did not have any kind of multi-trigger mode at all. It was only legato and the new reissue does not function this way.

The addition of a Multi-Trigger mode by Behringer is a welcome one but I still believe there is an issue with the way it behaves beyond it simply not working as I or other users expected. I strongly believe it is a bug and not a quirk.

As it stands, you have to be so precise with your avoiding overlapping two notes that it defeats the purpose of using this mode to begin with as using legato would have the same effect when not overlapping notes.
Super Contributor - Level 2

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Michael Lapke;144575 wrote:

They're willing to consider making some changes. Can you please kindly answer the following questions:

1, What is the multi-trigger feature that you had in the mind ?
2, Can any of you who are already comfortable with the current Multi-Trigger settings accept the change to this feature if everyone here agrees on how the feature should work?

Hopefully getting some feedback from end users will allow us to consider the best option moving forward. Thanks again for your input!


For me, multi-trigger mode works just as expected. Its interplay with key priority might be a bit confusing at first, though, and you probably want to adjust key priority as well when you switch to multi-trigger mode.

The issue for some here seems to be that a new note and envelope cycyle might get triggered by releasing a (different) key. I don't know how the Moog Reissue handles multi-trigger mode but the combination of multi-trigger mode and key priority set to "last" is exactly what I'm used to from u-he's Repro~1 in "Retrig" mode (so I guess it's the same as on the original Pro~One).

So for me, please, don't remove any of the current options!
If possible, I'd welcome an *additional* "multi-trigger-only-on-note-on-events-mode" though.