PhilroyJenkins Contributor - Level 2 2018-04-16

2018-04-16

Issue with Multi-Trigger

I believe there is an issue with the Multi-Trigger mode on the Model D. My unit has been in 1.05 since I received it about a week ago.

I made a video to demonstrate the issue here https://photos.app.goo.gl/of3iYZiVvIBgnmPx2
I compare the re-trigger mode to another synth of mine, the Prophet Rev2. I use the Rev2 as a controller for the Model D.

I start on the Rev2 and point to the Model D when I switch to it. I switch back and forth a few times but try to point to the active unit when I switch. The difference in sound should be apparent enough.

The Issue: I'm not really sure how to describe it but it seems like the Multi-Trigger mode is definitely not functioning like any other synth I've used. As you can see later in the video, any single key release on the Model D while in Multi-Trigger mode causes a key repeat. This makes it nearly impossible to use it in a musical sense.

You'd have to be so precise about hitting one key at a time that it renders the Multi-Trigger mode useless because you might as well have left it in Legato if you planned on strictly avoiding key overlaps.

I have tested this with low, high and last note priority and it seems to make no difference.

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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Well, that wasn't the news I wanted to hear.

This is extremely disappointing. I appreciate that you are telling me that I could maybe swap it for a "working" unit from the retailer but as you well know, these things are very difficult to get hold of.

It would appear that, for the moment, I am stuck with an inferior product. As a new Berhinger customer, this leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Am I crying? no...but I ain't exactly happy!
Contributor - Level 1

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Felix Homann;144608 wrote:
Oh, one exception that I consider a bug on the Behringer Model D: The currently played note should never be retriggered on release of another key!

Example A:

0. Use Multi-Trigger mode with key priority "Last"
1. Play C, keep the key down. => You hear a C being played
2. Play D, keep the key down. => You hear a D, envelopes get triggered.
3. Release C key. => The already played D gets retriggered. NOT OK or EXPECTED!

The other way around a trigger on release of a key is expected and OK, like

Example B:

0. Use Multi-Trigger mode with key priority "Last"
1. Play C, keep the key down. => You hear a C being played
2. Play D, keep the key down. => You hear a D, envelopes get triggered.
3. Release D key. => You hear a C, envelopes get triggered. OK and expected!

So, contrary to my initial statement, I consider the case of Example A a bug that should be fixed.

Kind regards,
Felix


Just received my Model D today and played around with it and felt the strong need to chime into this discussion.

I too share the same concern about the "multi-trigger" issue. I think everyone is on the same page, and I agree with Felix on his set of examples--where Ex. A is NOT good behavior which the Model D exhibits, and Ex. B is good behavior.

The bottom line is that (in mult-trigger; last note priority mode) I should be able to play a legato scale/chord-arpeggio UP and DOWN without it sounding like an annoying glitch or echo. In other words, if I play a legato scale (C-D-E-D-C), I should only hear 5 envelope triggers (not 9 like my behringer is currently playing--due to the retriggers of certain released notes...). Does that make sense?

If you watch Philroy's video in the original post, at 0:50, he shows that he plays a legato chord-arpeggio and proceeds to merely release the previous played notes, and they each play the SAME "last-played" note--this is not very musical and causes a "glitchy" sound, especially when playing fast legato passages...

If this can be fixed and installed in a firmware download, that would be amazing and I would have the utmost respect for Behringer. Thank you for reading and looking forward to hearing an update!

(Note: Currently running Behringer Model D v.1.0.5, and using a midi keyboard to control the Behringer Model D via Ableton Suite 10 (Windows 10) midi routing. )
Triber Moderator

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Her's a current preview of what's coming in the next Model D firmware update (1.0.6), for those of you who are interested on the subject.
Michael Lapke
Contributor - Level 1

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Michael Lapke;146633 wrote:
Her's a current preview of what's coming in the next Model D firmware update (1.0.6), for those of you who are interested on the subject.


That's awesome! As a keyboardist, I will definitely prefer the "New Style". Looking forward to 1.0.6!

I have no idea how to send a "sysex command string", but if it gets the model to multi-trigger properly, I'll learn Smiley Very Happy
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Michael Lapke;146633 wrote:
Her's a current preview of what's coming in the next Model D firmware update (1.0.6), for those of you who are interested on the subject.


Thanks, Michael!

The new triggering sounds better, and I'm happy to hear that pitch bend range is back to one octave. It's nice to see little tweaks and improvements in response to the feedback here.
Contributor - Level 3

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Michael Lapke;146633 wrote:
Her's a current preview of what's coming in the next Model D firmware update (1.0.6), for those of you who are interested on the subject.


Thank you so much for the info, Michael. I hope it will be released soon.

Cheers
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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Michael Lapke;146633 wrote:
Her's a current preview of what's coming in the next Model D firmware update (1.0.6), for those of you who are interested on the subject.


This looks great.

So, judging from this, by shutting off multi-trigger and using the new polychain mode, it appears possible that chained D’s will collectively act like a piano? No envelope re-triggers in release, each synth gets its own note? That is just what I would expect it to do.
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

My Model D arrived with v1.0.7 firmware, but, as there's no info on it, I've reverted to v1.0.6

The pitch bend and retriggering sysex commands seem to work for me, however, I'm a little puzzled on the key priority options which, for me, don't appear to change anything.

At the moment, if I play a note, hold it down while pressing another key, it's retriggered, yet the note doesn't change to the new key, it stays with the original note.
Perhaps I'm being stupid here, but other mono synths I've used have always changed to the new key. Any advice appreciated, thanks.
Triber Moderator

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

Gary Alan Franklin;149287 wrote:
My Model D arrived with v1.0.7 firmware, but, as there's no info on it, I've reverted to v1.0.6

The pitch bend and retriggering sysex commands seem to work for me, however, I'm a little puzzled on the key priority options which, for me, don't appear to change anything.

At the moment, if I play a note, hold it down while pressing another key, it's retriggered, yet the note doesn't change to the new key, it stays with the original note.
Perhaps I'm being stupid here, but other mono synths I've used have always changed to the new key. Any advice appreciated, thanks.


The note priority capabilities of MODEL D with regard to all versions of firmware are the same, to my knowledge nothing changed. Given the behavior you describe, it sounds to me like you have your MODEL D's "Note Priority" set to LAST (as opposed to LOW or HIGH).

- In the LAST mode, when you play a note and hold it, then play another note (higher or lower) the last note played will get the priority.

- In the LOW mode, only notes lower than the original note played will get the priority.

- In HIGH mode, only notes higher than the originating note played will get the priority.

Changing the note priority on MODEL D happens in a very specific order, and then loops around to the beginning again; the order being LAST/LOW/HIGH as outlined in section 4.9 of the product manual. It's also explained there how to change modes.

So for example, if you are in the LAST note priority mode and want to set it to HIGH, you would need to set the A-440 switch on your MODEL D to "off", and then when you turn it on flip the A-440 switch "On, off and then on again". This puts you in LOW note priority mode. From there you would need to power down your MODEL D, reset the A-440 button to "off" and then power MODEL D up while again flipping the A-440 switch "On, off and then on again" which will put it in HIGH note priority mode.

Each time you successfully change the note priority mode, the Power LED light on your MODEL D will flash 3 times in succession. Also keep in mind that flipping the A-440 back and forth once MODEL D has already booted up won't change modes, it has to be done right when you initially power the unit on.

Hope this helps!
Michael Lapke
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Issue with Multi-Trigger

File under "why didn't I try that before?"... Smiley Wink
Problem resolved by sending the "Restore Global Setting" command, all commands now working as expected Smiley Happy