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Contributor - Level 2

Perform VK needs XLR output

Helicon made stupid design decision on the Perfrom-VK.  And it will cost consumers ~$100 to make it right.

Helicon changed the output from mike-level XLR male, on the Perform V, to TRS line-level connectors on the Perform VK. Line-level TRS is fine for stereo connections to a recording mix board but TERRIBLE for "performance" live gigs, where we all use XLR mike-level connections to house PA systems! Many House PA systems dont have a Pad to reduce from line-level to mike-level. 

Helicon, what were you thinking??? Now we performers need to buy a ~$100 DI Box, and hang it off the back of the Perform VK to get back to mike-level XLR.   Stupid, stupid, stupid.

When i posed this question to John Satej in customer support he responded that "there's not enough room on the back for both XLR out and 1/4" connections. Not a valid answer. I suspect Helicon assumes there is more market for recording that for performance, and we performers got the shaft. (how ironic that the product is called "Perform VK" instead of "Record VK")

Reply here if you agree the Perform VK should be reworked to have a mike-level XLR output......

Daniel Graves -- Los Angeles -- danielgraves.la@gmail.com ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤
DannyG Contributor - Level 2 2017-03-09

2017-03-09

Perform VK needs XLR output

Helicon made stupid design decision on the Perfrom-VK.  And it will cost consumers ~$100 to make it right.

Helicon changed the output from mike-level XLR male, on the Perform V, to TRS line-level connectors on the Perform VK. Line-level TRS is fine for stereo connections to a recording mix board but TERRIBLE for "performance" live gigs, where we all use XLR mike-level connections to house PA systems! Many House PA systems dont have a Pad to reduce from line-level to mike-level. 

Helicon, what were you thinking??? Now we performers need to buy a ~$100 DI Box, and hang it off the back of the Perform VK to get back to mike-level XLR.   Stupid, stupid, stupid.

When i posed this question to John Satej in customer support he responded that "there's not enough room on the back for both XLR out and 1/4" connections. Not a valid answer. I suspect Helicon assumes there is more market for recording that for performance, and we performers got the shaft. (how ironic that the product is called "Perform VK" instead of "Record VK")

Reply here if you agree the Perform VK should be reworked to have a mike-level XLR output......

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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Perform VK needs XLR output

Well 2.5 years later, maybe this thread had an impact on Helicon's design of the Perform V series.  They made the same mistake with "TRS Line-level connectors instead of XLR mike-level connectors" on the Perform-VE, but returned back to the "XLR mike-level connector" on the Perform VG.

 

Im still pushing for a "v2" of Perform-VK and Perform-VE, where they remove the TRS connectors and change the outputs to mike-level XLR connectors.  Not holding my breath.  Companies make design mistakes all the time, but rarely to they admit/correct it.

 

Until then Perform-VK and VE owners, you'll need a good quality DI Box to get a XLR output.  ADD $100 TO YOUR COST for the VK and VE.

 

Daniel Graves -- Los Angeles -- danielgraves.la@gmail.com ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤

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Contributor - Level 2

Re: Perform VK needs XLR output

Hi Email (snicker@nick)
I have tested my VK live already, and just using standard 1/4" instrument cables works just fine.
Most mixers have combo inputs nowadays, but if not, the 1/4" inputs work just as well, as the VK outputs a LINE level signal. Balanced 1/$" (TRS) also work, of course...some prefer that.

And as far as adapters are concerned, a quick amazon search gave me several hits.
Here are 2 of them:
https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-HSX-003-XLR3M-Balanced-Interconnect/dp/B006BLC1BI/ref=sr_1_35?ie=UTF8&qi...

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Premier-4inch-16AWG-Plated/dp/B001UJEKZ6/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=14...
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Perform VK needs XLR output

Reading the specs it says;

Connectors: ¼” TRS, impedance balanced left and right
Output Impedance Balanced/ Unbalanced: 200/100 Ohm

So they are TRS, so a standard TRS to XLR cable should do (could use adapter, but a cable would be easier).. Yes some players may go TS to TS and thus unbalance, but for us (and to desk) it'll be a TRS to XLR.
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Perform VK needs XLR output

Correctamundo, my friend! Smiley Happy
Solution Leader

Re: Perform VK needs XLR output

Just to chime in here, we made the 1/4" decision based on typical connections in keyboard/synth setups. It's fairly common to have line mixers in racks of synths and such so we thought it would be most compatible if we output in that format. Going TRS --> XLR is a single cable as the guys mentioned, so we hoped it wouldn't be too onerous.
Cheers, Craig Brand Solutions Leader - Broadcast & Streaming
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Perform VK needs XLR output

I'm presuming you had the channel gain as low as it could go? Or are you using a simple mixer with no independent gain and channel volumes?

Any chance of detailing what mixer you are using?
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Perform VK needs XLR output

Diki Ross;133490 wrote:
I'm presuming ... what mixer you are using?


Diki, I play out a lot, and every venue has different sound systems. At least half (usually the smaller/cheaper clubs) don't have TRS inputs and I have to use my TRS to XLR cable. Also ~25% of venues don't have a PAD button on the input, so they have to bring down my input level to "less than 1".
It was a significant design mistake by Helicon to assume that our Perform VKs would only be inputting to sound systems equipped with TRS inputs with a PAD button.
Daniel Graves -- Los Angeles -- danielgraves.la@gmail.com ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Perform VK needs XLR output

Did any of the venues try putting the TRS outputs into 1/4" line ins rather than mic ins?
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Perform VK needs XLR output

Alternatively, do you have a DI box with a pad on it?

Or maybe a pair of these would be handy to have... https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IMPpad20?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIheHm-piC1wIVjYl-Ch3GJgcvEAkYASABE...
Contributor - Level 2

Re: Perform VK needs XLR output

Diki, most performance venues run cables from their mix boards (in the back of the room) to junction boxes on stage. These junction boxes are all XLR, and rarely have TRS inputs. Live-sound technicians expect microphones to have XLR connectors. And even when they are getting sound from an on-stage instrument amp, they either pull an XLR output off of the amp or stick an XLR microphone in front of the amp.
Live Performance venues are an XLR world. It was short-sighted of TC Helicon to assume that live performances venues could accept a TRS output. Its says to me, that the Perform-VK was designed primarily for studio recording, where TRS inputs are no problem.
TC Helicon got it right with XLR outputs on the PerformV, but screwed up the Perform VK with TRS outputs. That decision was apparently made because they "didn't have enough room on the back panel for XLR connectors" (per response from Helicon tech support). Really?? They let a packaging issue decimate the usability of the whole product. That's just sad.
Daniel Graves -- Los Angeles -- danielgraves.la@gmail.com ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤