Contributor - Level 2

Low input and loud speakers problem

Hi everyone,

 

I was hoping someone might be able to offer some insights.

 

We're running a Behringer x32 in our room and we've been getting some distortions in our recording.  I talked to a radio announcer friend who told me that the distortions were caused by the gain being to high into the recorder(not counting the times when we screwed up mic placement), which sounded odd to me because the input on the channel meter is extremely low.  I talked to my sister's husband, who is a band director, and he told me that he'd had the exact problem before and that our speakers were too loud and needed to be turned down.

I played around with our speakers and our dbx driverack PA+ setup but wasn't able to change much, even with bypassing the driverack and going directly into the speakers from the board.  I'm not sure if the driverack setup is actually helping, it only has setup options for biamping or passive speakers. We have 1 set of powered speakers so I don't think either option applies.  In either case it's expecting to have an amplifier between the driverack and the speakers and ours are built into the speakers.

I've seen videos of people explaining something with the behringer and when they speak into their mic the channel meter light up into the yellow, by comparison ours rarely goes above -60 on the meter, even with the gain cranked up to scary levels.  I'm not actually sure what it should look like, but I'm pretty sure we're not running at unity gain.

I did my testing with a shure wireless mic, with the gain set at +8 or +10 on the receiver box, and still wasn't able to get it above -30 on the meter while talking loudly into it.

Has anyone encountered something like this, or have any advice?

 

Our room is setup with JBL EON 612 powered speakers.  They have both input volume control and master volume.  I'm not sure if we should set the master and only adjust the input, or vice versa.

 

I've put forth a proposal to update equipment and actually mount speakers where they're supposed to be, but it could be years or decades before it actually gets done.  In the meantime, I'd like to do what I can to get things to run better.

 

Thanks!

DanielBarnes Contributor - Level 2 2019-07-16

2019-07-16

Low input and loud speakers problem

Hi everyone,

 

I was hoping someone might be able to offer some insights.

 

We're running a Behringer x32 in our room and we've been getting some distortions in our recording.  I talked to a radio announcer friend who told me that the distortions were caused by the gain being to high into the recorder(not counting the times when we screwed up mic placement), which sounded odd to me because the input on the channel meter is extremely low.  I talked to my sister's husband, who is a band director, and he told me that he'd had the exact problem before and that our speakers were too loud and needed to be turned down.

I played around with our speakers and our dbx driverack PA+ setup but wasn't able to change much, even with bypassing the driverack and going directly into the speakers from the board.  I'm not sure if the driverack setup is actually helping, it only has setup options for biamping or passive speakers. We have 1 set of powered speakers so I don't think either option applies.  In either case it's expecting to have an amplifier between the driverack and the speakers and ours are built into the speakers.

I've seen videos of people explaining something with the behringer and when they speak into their mic the channel meter light up into the yellow, by comparison ours rarely goes above -60 on the meter, even with the gain cranked up to scary levels.  I'm not actually sure what it should look like, but I'm pretty sure we're not running at unity gain.

I did my testing with a shure wireless mic, with the gain set at +8 or +10 on the receiver box, and still wasn't able to get it above -30 on the meter while talking loudly into it.

Has anyone encountered something like this, or have any advice?

 

Our room is setup with JBL EON 612 powered speakers.  They have both input volume control and master volume.  I'm not sure if we should set the master and only adjust the input, or vice versa.

 

I've put forth a proposal to update equipment and actually mount speakers where they're supposed to be, but it could be years or decades before it actually gets done.  In the meantime, I'd like to do what I can to get things to run better.

 

Thanks!

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Accepted Solutions
Trusted Contributor - Level 3

Re: Low input and loud speakers problem


@DanielBarnes wrote:

I played with the system a little today.

We have several shure ULX wireless mics, and 1 newer GLX wireless mic.  The Levels for the ULX were already at max both on the mic and the receiver as far as I could tell.  Adjusting the GLX gain worked very well, but with the speaker input/master levels set at roughly 9 o'clock, the ULX mics and wired shure mics needed their gains up quite a bit. What's considered standard practice for speakers with input and master volume knobs?  To set the input and only adjust the master, or only adjust the input?

The important setting is the preamp levels (gain). You want them in the orange during rehearsal so when the performers get excited, they aren't clipping the pre-amps. An peak (red) is no big deal. The best way to find a "crunchy" mic is to solo that channel with headphones. If you're in the orange on the mixer channel, then it's the wireless mic probably is too hot and the input gain (on the mic) needs to be lowered. As for speaker input level—If you need/want to be louder, do you want to run back to each cabinet to change it? Maybe set the X32 master fader at 0db for the loudest you could ever want to be. It's really about how you want to work (and the others that might also run it). 

 

I'm pretty quiet and I'm not a singer so it's a little difficult for me to hear if I'm making progress.  I need to play with it whenever there's another practice.  Our stage is basically in front of our speakers, and our stage monitors used to be crazy loud.  I swear that 90% of the sound in the room was coming off the monitors on stage.  It's a little hard to adjust the amplifier without a band on stage. 

Every singer is different and mic sensitivity may need to be set for each singer. If you has wired SM58s, you wouldn't have these problems😉.

Loud monitors, amplifiers, and drums are the bane of any sound tech.  It's hard to "Mix" when all the sound is noise from the stage.

Good Luck.


 

 

Trusted Contributor - Level 3

Re: Low input and loud speakers problem

Hi @DanielBarnes 

To identify the problem, take a methodical approach. Start with the mics. Wireless can and do overdrive. Check the input sensitivity on the transmitter/receiver (some adjustments are on the transmitter and some are on the receiver). 

It sounds as though your mic preamp settings are low and not the problem.

Make a recording with amps off to check for weird noise and feedback.

Contributor - Level 2

Re: Low input and loud speakers problem

I played with the system a little today.

We have several shure ULX wireless mics, and 1 newer GLX wireless mic.  The Levels for the ULX were already at max both on the mic and the receiver as far as I could tell.  Adjusting the GLX gain worked very well, but with the speaker input/master levels set at roughly 9 o'clock, the ULX mics and wired shure mics needed their gains up quite a bit. What's considered standard practice for speakers with input and master volume knobs?  To set the input and only adjust the master, or only adjust the input?

 

I'm pretty quiet and I'm not a singer so it's a little difficult for me to hear if I'm making progress.  I need to play with it whenever there's another practice.  Our stage is basically in front of our speakers, and our stage monitors used to be crazy loud.  I swear that 90% of the sound in the room was coming off the monitors on stage.  It's a little hard to adjust the amplifier without a band on stage. 

 

I'm slowly figuring out this weird mess I inherited.

Trusted Contributor - Level 3

Re: Low input and loud speakers problem


@DanielBarnes wrote:

I played with the system a little today.

We have several shure ULX wireless mics, and 1 newer GLX wireless mic.  The Levels for the ULX were already at max both on the mic and the receiver as far as I could tell.  Adjusting the GLX gain worked very well, but with the speaker input/master levels set at roughly 9 o'clock, the ULX mics and wired shure mics needed their gains up quite a bit. What's considered standard practice for speakers with input and master volume knobs?  To set the input and only adjust the master, or only adjust the input?

The important setting is the preamp levels (gain). You want them in the orange during rehearsal so when the performers get excited, they aren't clipping the pre-amps. An peak (red) is no big deal. The best way to find a "crunchy" mic is to solo that channel with headphones. If you're in the orange on the mixer channel, then it's the wireless mic probably is too hot and the input gain (on the mic) needs to be lowered. As for speaker input level—If you need/want to be louder, do you want to run back to each cabinet to change it? Maybe set the X32 master fader at 0db for the loudest you could ever want to be. It's really about how you want to work (and the others that might also run it). 

 

I'm pretty quiet and I'm not a singer so it's a little difficult for me to hear if I'm making progress.  I need to play with it whenever there's another practice.  Our stage is basically in front of our speakers, and our stage monitors used to be crazy loud.  I swear that 90% of the sound in the room was coming off the monitors on stage.  It's a little hard to adjust the amplifier without a band on stage. 

Every singer is different and mic sensitivity may need to be set for each singer. If you has wired SM58s, you wouldn't have these problems😉.

Loud monitors, amplifiers, and drums are the bane of any sound tech.  It's hard to "Mix" when all the sound is noise from the stage.

Good Luck.


 

 

Contributor - Level 2

Re: Low input and loud speakers problem

It looks like turning up the gain on the mics fixed the problem.  We only need a few channels that need to be right in the recording mix, the rest just need to be good in the room.  We still have some balancing to do between the mic settings and the preamps on the board, but this is a big step in the right direction.