MIDI control codes for effects

[MichaelAngelo]

I’ve gotten the FCB1010 to work with the XR18. I can only get to channel 1 commands, but I can make do for now. I’m able to add delay to a vocal channel at the right moment with an expression pedal.

What I really need is a way to control the delay tempo. I’m hoping I can set a pedal on the FCB1010 to send tap tempo commands to a delay effect via MIDI. I’ve seen others do it with other self-made MIDI controllers, but I can’t even find any MIDI commands to do anything to the effects for the XR18.

Anyone?

[Paul_Vannatto]

Hi Michael,

The reason you can't find a midi command for the tap tempo is because there is no such command. In fact there is no OSC command. The DIY controllers use an arduino that senses the taps to the pedal, takes an average time and sends that time (in milliseconds) as a sysex hex string of the OSC command to configure the delay time parameter.

To generate this hex string, I created SysexOscGen app (https://sourceforge.net/projects/sysexoscgen/). You will need to refer to Patrick's OSC Protocol doc (https://sites.google.com/site/patrickmaillot/x32), particularly pages 88-89

[TedRippert]

Michael,

You will need some kind of computer (like the ARDUINO you mention, or a laptop, or a Raspberry PI ...) and a midi interface to do tap tempo on an XAir.

Paul's references can get you there if you can program, or even just hack at other peoples programs.

I have set up a tap tempo interface (along with other uses) that works on any computer that can run a BASH shell. If you know what a BASH shell is, I can help you get it up and running pretty fast. If not, you can still do it, but there's a learning curve (and you need some hardware as I mentioned).

I use an FCB 1010 myself (along with a raspberry pi or my laptop) to do tap tempo, so it can be done. On benefit (for me) is that the RPi also does some audio FX work for me too (and, of course, my laptop can too).

-Ted

[MichaelAngelo]

Thanks guys! At least I know it is possible. I just got off the phone with Behringer and they said "I'm not sure what videos you are seeing, but that's not possible". Well, I know what I've seen.

I'm really not crazy about carrying more gear around to gigs, but I suppose a Raspberry PI is small enough.

I am a software engineer so please by all means throw it all at me!! It would be so cool to be able to send commands to the effects from the stage without having to take my hand from my bass and mess with the iPad. I don't suppose it's possible to swap out effects via MIDI???

Thanks again!!

Mike

[TedRippert]

Hey Michael,

I've updated my OSC tools quite a bit since posting this, and I just added Tap tempo last week, so it's not even up on GitHub yet. I'll update in a day or two and let you know.

Make sure to at least scan through Patrick's OSC document which Paul linked to. Also download the link here for some more info and a nice concise list of XAir OSC commands.

The Built in (normal - non-OSC) XAir MIDI commands are listed here. Note that you can load snapshots with program change commands. Since snapshots can be set up to only change selected parameters, you can use this to do some fine tuning in real time. I used to control the compressor on my bass channel with this. Unfortunately, you can't do tap tempo this way. However, you can certainly change FX modules via snapshots. You have to be a little careful as certain FX changes take some time to occur and won't work for instant changes in the middle of a song, but there are some tricks to work around this.

You can control anything that the XAir App controls (which is to say everything) using OSC commands. There are two different types: UDP (network) OSC, which pretty much conforms to the industry standard format, and MIDI Sysex OSC, which is a slightly different format and has to be sent in Hex using a Sysex code on the MIDI port. The UDP OSC can be used to get information from the the mixer in real time as well as set parameters. The MIDI really only sets parameters.

I play Bass myself, and actually bought a second XAir (XR12) as a preamp after finding out how good the XR18 sounded with Bass plugged straight into the High-Z inputs. Are you going straight into your XAir?

-Ted

[TedRippert]

Michael,

I've updated my GitHub page with the Tap Tempo capable code. It's only in NetOSC.sh for now. So you can try that or wait until I get it translated for the MidiOSC.sh executable.

Note that if you don't have a MIDI interface for your computer, you can use your XR18 as one. Check the Setup->Audio/MIDI->USB-DIN Pass Thru box. This makes the XR18 act as a USB-MIDI interface. It does, however, disable the use of the MIDI for sending OSC commands (or regular midi commands), so you will have to use NetOSC.sh with it in this configuration.

I'll post again here when I've got MidiOSC.sh updated with the Tap Tempo commands.

-Ted

[TedRippert]

OK, my MidiOSC utility testing went well, but is probably not exhaustive. The Tap Tempo functions do work though. I'm going to open a new thread the third party tools forum for them.

-Ted

[MichaelAngelo]

Hey Ted. I thought of your post after my gig on Saturday. I have run direct to the mixer in other bands, but not yet with this one into the XR18. I should have though because at our last gig, we had a very tight squeeze as the stage was very small. I did bring a smaller amp that I normally use for practice, but didn't hear it in the least. I heard the fronts because they were right next to me!!

The disappointment that I did not experience until I heard the recordings from videos the next day was the finger noise on the bass. I had no clue that it was occuring. A family member come up to me afterwards and was trying to explain what they were hearing and I would have never guessed that was the issue until I heard it for myself.

I was also playing with a new bass with active electronics, so maybe I was pushing the highs a bit. I'll have to experiment.

My question to you is, do you EQ your bass on the XR and if so, can you give me an idea how you do set it to control the noise?

Thanks.

[TedRippert]

Michael Angelo;144610 wrote:
My question to you is, do you EQ your bass on the XR and if so, can you give me an idea how you do set it to control the noise?

Michael - Yes I do EQ my Bass input to the XAir. The specifics of the EQ can change with the particular song or playing style.

I assume you were just going direct in to the XAir off your amp or a DI box. In that kind of set-up I just try to match the response of the speakers on my Bass Amp. For me, that is a Low Pass filter set at around 5kHz. I use the High Shelf filter in the parametric EQ on the input channel. I like that better than the High Cut Off since the real speaker does have some output above it's specified upper frequency limit.

Finger noise is usually especially prevalent on songs where you are using overdrive or distortion.

You may also want to use a High Pass filter at 30 Hz or so if your PA has a Subwoofer. It's not as important, but I can hear the low thumps on my PA if I don't do that. The standard low cut option on every XAir channel works fine for that.

Again, you may want to change these settings depending on the song, but that's the beauty of the XAir with it's snapshots. You can change things in realtime as you go.

I do have a couple Schecter Basses with active electronics and a three band EQ. I find that they tend to have too much finger noise with all the EQ knobs set to the central detents. For most songs I'll turn the treble knob all the way to zero, and then just back it off zero by a slight amount. However, sometimes I'll turn the midrange knob to zero, put the treble at the central detent, and boost the bass a little to get a nice scoop sound.

So, like you said, experiment a little with your new Bass. Just keep in mind that if you are experimenting using your Bass Amp, that your PA speakers probably have a very different frequency response. The 5kHz or so low pass filter should fix that. If you have access to your PA when practicing, you might try doing an A/B comparison with your Bass Amp and PA to tweak the EQ just right.

-Ted