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Contributor - Level 3

Restarting with X32 - Looking for some advice

Our church purchased and installed an X32 Compact two years ago, and we LOVE it. However, the folks that set it up did so without me present, and the team of users from church that WAS present wasn't exactly... technical, like me... so they didn't take notes and didn't ask some very specific questions. The sound has been giving us problems lately, and I think that's due to some fiddling by those that didn't know what they were doing.

So, we're going to take a stab at restarting from scratch using a recently purchased RTA mic as well as re-ringing the mics.

I found a video of how another church is using their X32, by setting up a Base Scene and copying it for as many specials that they need per service, and 'dropping' mics into channels from the Library into each scene. For example, all of their core settings are stored in Scene 01, and in the case of having 3 specials by 3 different singers, they copy that Scene 01 to Scene 02, 03, and 04, and for each of those they 'drop' preset Library settings into their appropriate spots for each scene and save that. When it comes time for those specials, I think that they just hit the 'Next' button on Cues (it wasn't specified in the video). At the end of the service, they delete Scenes 02, 03, and 04, and re-set things up on the next service. My question (below) about this approach is how does this affect the monitors... in the video around 4:00 he said that it 'sets the monitors'. (Note, we found that DCA's for us do not work well for what we have on the Compact, so we avoid using them at all costs... it's just how we do things for now.)


With that being said, I'm looking for some advice on some good ways to set up our Scene 00 as well as setting up our sound, and I have some questions covering several different topics. I've been reading some information such as Scene Safes, Scene, Snippets and Cues, and Using Pink Noise and the Built-In RTA to Ring Out Your Room

[LIST=1]
  • When downloading the scenes onto a computer, will that also download the Library and Scene Safes? If not, what will and will not be backed up? How should I go about completely archiving the X32 before getting started with this new set up?

  • For the above scenario, when adding a mic to the Library, how should we go about keeping the settings for the Monitors (Mixes)? Do we need to keep these channel settings separated for FOH and Platform (Stage / BOH?) in the Library? How will their placement on the platform (stage-left vs stage-right, etc.) affect these monitor settings?

  • What's the proper way to use Scene Locks so that only those settings for the Mics affect the board and not the Mains / Monitors / Recording equipment?

  • When using an RTA, what are some misconceptions and mistakes in setting up a room? In reading the comments on the video by Drew Brashler, there appear to be a number of things he didn't discuss when setting up the sound, such as using a software analyzer (some very expensive software at that). We are not a rich church, and buying software like Smaart V8 is not gonna happen in this year's budget (either 2018 or 2019). If it costs money, we will need to take up an offering, and that still might not go toward software... the pastor's LAV mic needs some TLC.



    Our setup: (I don't have exact make and models on me at this time, but can obtain them if they are important)
    We have 4x wedge monitors, two of which have 'taps' for volume controlled speakers next to the pianist and organist which are opposite of each other on the platform, and outside of the Choir area. We have 4x drop ceiling choir mics, 1x podium mic (not sure of its make or model), the piano is mic'd with a wired SM58, and the Clavinova ('organ') is direct wired via a HiZ to LoZ converter. All of that is being fed to the X32 using an S16 digital snake. The outputs of that digital snake are feeding 1x amp (bridged mono) for the single main FOH speaker, and 2x amps for the monitors (4x individual channels). At the X32 in the back of the auditorium's sound-booth we have 2x Shure lapel mic 8x Shure wireless mics. This sound-booth is approximately 60 feet from the front of the platform (which I'm thinking is the reason our wireless mics have dropped out on occasion). The platform is raised about 36" from the floor our pews are on, and the sound-booth is raised about 12" from the same floor as the pews.

    Monitors 1-4 are on Mix 2-5 respectively, while the LiveStream is on Mix 1, Subwoofer on Mix 7, and then we've toyed with Mix9/10 for stereo input to a video camera, and such. The single Main Speaker I think is on Left/Right (there's been some confusion about this as it was explained to our music director that the amp is digital and therefore in stereo, even though it is set to mono/bridge with a single speaker... again, I wasn't there and this is the information he told me, so I can't say for sure... I can find out for sure if it's necessary).
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    ScottKennett Contributor - Level 3 2019-01-01

    2019-01-01

    Restarting with X32 - Looking for some advice

    Our church purchased and installed an X32 Compact two years ago, and we LOVE it. However, the folks that set it up did so without me present, and the team of users from church that WAS present wasn't exactly... technical, like me... so they didn't take notes and didn't ask some very specific questions. The sound has been giving us problems lately, and I think that's due to some fiddling by those that didn't know what they were doing.

    So, we're going to take a stab at restarting from scratch using a recently purchased RTA mic as well as re-ringing the mics.

    I found a video of how another church is using their X32, by setting up a Base Scene and copying it for as many specials that they need per service, and 'dropping' mics into channels from the Library into each scene. For example, all of their core settings are stored in Scene 01, and in the case of having 3 specials by 3 different singers, they copy that Scene 01 to Scene 02, 03, and 04, and for each of those they 'drop' preset Library settings into their appropriate spots for each scene and save that. When it comes time for those specials, I think that they just hit the 'Next' button on Cues (it wasn't specified in the video). At the end of the service, they delete Scenes 02, 03, and 04, and re-set things up on the next service. My question (below) about this approach is how does this affect the monitors... in the video around 4:00 he said that it 'sets the monitors'. (Note, we found that DCA's for us do not work well for what we have on the Compact, so we avoid using them at all costs... it's just how we do things for now.)


    With that being said, I'm looking for some advice on some good ways to set up our Scene 00 as well as setting up our sound, and I have some questions covering several different topics. I've been reading some information such as Scene Safes, Scene, Snippets and Cues, and Using Pink Noise and the Built-In RTA to Ring Out Your Room

    [LIST=1]

  • When downloading the scenes onto a computer, will that also download the Library and Scene Safes? If not, what will and will not be backed up? How should I go about completely archiving the X32 before getting started with this new set up?

  • For the above scenario, when adding a mic to the Library, how should we go about keeping the settings for the Monitors (Mixes)? Do we need to keep these channel settings separated for FOH and Platform (Stage / BOH?) in the Library? How will their placement on the platform (stage-left vs stage-right, etc.) affect these monitor settings?

  • What's the proper way to use Scene Locks so that only those settings for the Mics affect the board and not the Mains / Monitors / Recording equipment?

  • When using an RTA, what are some misconceptions and mistakes in setting up a room? In reading the comments on the video by Drew Brashler, there appear to be a number of things he didn't discuss when setting up the sound, such as using a software analyzer (some very expensive software at that). We are not a rich church, and buying software like Smaart V8 is not gonna happen in this year's budget (either 2018 or 2019). If it costs money, we will need to take up an offering, and that still might not go toward software... the pastor's LAV mic needs some TLC.



    Our setup: (I don't have exact make and models on me at this time, but can obtain them if they are important)
    We have 4x wedge monitors, two of which have 'taps' for volume controlled speakers next to the pianist and organist which are opposite of each other on the platform, and outside of the Choir area. We have 4x drop ceiling choir mics, 1x podium mic (not sure of its make or model), the piano is mic'd with a wired SM58, and the Clavinova ('organ') is direct wired via a HiZ to LoZ converter. All of that is being fed to the X32 using an S16 digital snake. The outputs of that digital snake are feeding 1x amp (bridged mono) for the single main FOH speaker, and 2x amps for the monitors (4x individual channels). At the X32 in the back of the auditorium's sound-booth we have 2x Shure lapel mic 8x Shure wireless mics. This sound-booth is approximately 60 feet from the front of the platform (which I'm thinking is the reason our wireless mics have dropped out on occasion). The platform is raised about 36" from the floor our pews are on, and the sound-booth is raised about 12" from the same floor as the pews.

    Monitors 1-4 are on Mix 2-5 respectively, while the LiveStream is on Mix 1, Subwoofer on Mix 7, and then we've toyed with Mix9/10 for stereo input to a video camera, and such. The single Main Speaker I think is on Left/Right (there's been some confusion about this as it was explained to our music director that the amp is digital and therefore in stereo, even though it is set to mono/bridge with a single speaker... again, I wasn't there and this is the information he told me, so I can't say for sure... I can find out for sure if it's necessary).
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    Volunteer Moderator

    Re: Restarting with X32 - Looking for some advice

    Hi Scott,

    Glad to hear that you are willing to "start from scratch" in order to get a grasp on your setup and have it do exactly what you want/need. This is going to take some time and I assume you will get a lot of excellent advice from the seasoned users here. I will (of course) add my few nickels worth of suggestions when I can. I would suggest that you work through the various suggestions so that in the end, you will find the setup, solutions and workflow that will work best for you and your team.
    Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator. Did you find my post helpful? Give kudos or mark it as a solution!
    Volunteer Moderator

    Re: Restarting with X32 - Looking for some advice

    Hi Scott,

    Those videos are excellent tutorials, particularly the ones Drew Brashler has made. Interestingly I just discovered yesterday the one he made showing how to ring out a room with the RTA and pink noise. Last night (while watching the New Years Eve shows on TV) I made up a couple of snippets to setup the RTA, etc. as per Drew's settings. When I get a moment, I'll test the snippets and then provide them here. Later I'll make a couple of tidbits for Live Toolbox.

    Regarding dealing with scene safes to retain specific settings (eg. monitor mixes, etc), I would highly recommend that you learn how to make snippets instead of relying on safes. Because they are not very granular, and they are not well documented (like the OSC protocol has been done by Patrick), I avoid using safes and create snippets to accomplish exactly what I want. Drew has shown in one of his tutorials how to use the X32 snippet GUI, which is one way to create them. Unfortunately, that GUI may not be granular enough to change exactly what you want. Another solution is to setup a scene with all of the settings, save it to a scene file and load it into Scene Parser, parse out specific sections (using one or more filters), fine tune the results (using editor and parsing tools), save the resulting snippet to a file, and finally import it into the X32 snippet list.
    Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator. Did you find my post helpful? Give kudos or mark it as a solution!
    Volunteer Moderator

    Re: Restarting with X32 - Looking for some advice

    Scott Kennett;157893 wrote:

    When downloading the scenes onto a computer, will that also download the Library and Scene Safes? If not, what will and will not be backed up? How should I go about completely archiving the X32 before getting started with this new set up?

    No unfortunately. The library is separate from scenes and the safes can only be saved as part of a show (of course my suggestions is to not use safes anyways). Patrick has created a number of very useful tools here to backup and restore the various elements. Someone has recently asked him to make an all-inclusive tool to make a complete backup and restore. Because that will take an enormous effort in time and coding, it will probably be some time before he could have it available.

    For the above scenario, when adding a mic to the Library, how should we go about keeping the settings for the Monitors (Mixes)? Do we need to keep these channel settings separated for FOH and Platform (Stage / BOH?) in the Library? How will their placement on the platform (stage-left vs stage-right, etc.) affect these monitor settings?

    Presets in the library are limited in scope using the recall scope filters. Unfortunately these (like safes) are not very granular. Another approach is to save the channel presets as files, edit them using a text editor (eg. Notepad++) then import them back into the channel preset list.

    What's the proper way to use Scene Locks so that only those settings for the Mics affect the board and not the Mains / Monitors / Recording equipment?

    The simple answer would be the buses safe. Unfortunately, it isn't as simple as that. If in the scene there are channel source changes, that will affect the channel sends to the monitors, etc. The "proper" way to use scene safes is not to use them IMO.

    When using an RTA, what are some misconceptions and mistakes in setting up a room? In reading the comments on the video by Drew Brashler, there appear to be a number of things he didn't discuss when setting up the sound, such as using a software analyzer (some very expensive software at that). We are not a rich church, and buying software like Smaart V8 is not gonna happen in this year's budget (either 2018 or 2019). If it costs money, we will need to take up an offering, and that still might not go toward software... the pastor's LAV mic needs some TLC.

    My church is in the same budget constraints as yours. I initially used the older Behringer Ultracurve with an RTA mic to ring out the sanctuary (before we got the X32) about 8 years ago. Since then we added the X32, S16, P16 eco-system, changed FOH speakers, added acoustic treatment on the back wall (courtesy of a local college that was discarding the panels during a renovation) and recently replaced a dying Peavey amp with the new Behringer NX3000D. During one of the rehearsals last month, I disabled the stereo GEQ temporarily (setup when we installed the X32 from the settings of that Ultracurve), then re-enabled it. I was surprised at how well it sounded with those old EQ settings. I am planning on redoing it using Drew's method in the next few weeks, then compare the new settings with the old.
    Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator. Did you find my post helpful? Give kudos or mark it as a solution!
    Contributor - Level 3

    Re: Restarting with X32 - Looking for some advice

    Paul Vannatto;157905 wrote:
    Last night (while watching the New Years Eve shows on TV) I made up a couple of snippets to setup the RTA, etc. as per Drew's settings. When I get a moment, I'll test the snippets and then provide them here. Later I'll make a couple of tidbits for Live Toolbox.
    I look forward to reviewing your results.


    A couple of questions on this paragraph:
    Paul Vannatto;157905 wrote:
    Regarding dealing with scene safes to retain specific settings (eg. monitor mixes, etc), I would highly recommend that you learn how to make snippets instead of relying on safes. Because they are not very granular, and they are not well documented (like the OSC protocol has been done by Patrick), I avoid using safes and create snippets to accomplish exactly what I want. Drew has shown in one of his tutorials how to use the X32 snippet GUI, which is one way to create them. Unfortunately, that GUI may not be granular enough to change exactly what you want.


    [LIST=1]
  • This tutorial video?
  • I'm not tracking what you mean when you use the term 'granular'. Could you explain a little more the usage of that word as it applies here?




    Paul Vannatto;157905 wrote:
    Another solution is to setup a scene with all of the settings, save it to a scene file and load it into Scene Parser, parse out specific sections (using one or more filters), fine tune the results (using editor and parsing tools), save the resulting snippet to a file, and finally import it into the X32 snippet list.
    I'm gathering that to do what that guy showed in the first link on how he sets up his scenes, I will need to more or less piece together an overall solution and 'create' a scene outside of the X32, then 'move' that into Scene 00 to be my base. Does that ring true to you? If that's true, this Scene would store all of the Base Level Routings for Mixes and Mains, as well as the EQ settings for those mixes / mains, which would (could?) also include FX's, Gains, etc.?

    Once that's accomplished, would I be OK to keep an active copy in Scene 00, and make a backup copy in Scene 99 (for example), and not use Scene Safes at all? I'm not sure (yet) what you mean by creating Snippets and doing things this way. Could you clarify that a little more, please? (A live video tutorial or even a screen-capture would be great! hint hint lol)


    Paul Vannatto;157905 wrote:
    Another approach is to save the channel presets as files, edit them using a text editor (eg. Notepad++) then import them back into the channel preset list.
    What sort of editing would need to be done here to make that preset useful in my case? What changes would need to be made?



    Getting back to using a Snippet... I get that a Snippet is like a micro-scene in that only the necessary changes needed are affected when loaded rather than the whole scene... a little faster and it doesn't overwrite things that aren't needed to be changed. What I'm a little lost on is how that's more effective in my needs than loading an entire scene from a base level, which in my mind would prevent any odd changes in the Mixes / Mains and their associated EQ settings. We currently are using upwards of 56 Scenes (obviously not all in the same month, let alone same service)... I think where we went wrong was to make changes to the mains / mixes on one or two scenes, then copy those to another set of scenes, make more changes, and we never really got a good, solid setup.

    Near as I can tell, and for what I'm needing to accomplish, the only changes needing to be made would be to just the microphones used during singing, from one person to another. The choir mics won't change, neither would the piano and Classinova input, nor the pulpit mic, and rarely would the pastor's LAV mic. (I forgot to mention that we do have a bass guitar player also piped in. Bass players always seem to get overlooked, right?) We have a separate (same make/model) LAV mic for any guest pastors / missionaries, and this mic serves as a backup in case something drastic happens to pastor's primary LAV mic. The backup LAV is about the only one that would be the 'catch-all', and thereby have the greatest on-the-fly change between uses.


    If we were to ring each of the wireless mics (which are the only ones that would be changed from person to person), and make adjustments to the individual Mixes (for the monitors and mains) by setting a tight Q in the PEQ... when things go from 'wet to dry' and vice-versa, or when the crowd goes from thick to thin, on the fly we could just widen out that Q setting to prevent any feedback. However, each person's frequency is different and would also be affected by how they hold the mics, so would setting anything up beforehand be of any value?


    By the way, in your experience for setting up the mixes: Which would be better for the 4x monitors / 1x main / 1x sub-woofer? I ask because of what I read here, but this thread seemed more for a stage than a church, yet I've watched a video that conflict with that thread.

    [LIST=1]
  • ONLY use the PEQ for each mix?
  • Only use 1/3 Octave GEQ in the Effects?
  • Use a combination of PEQ and GEQ?


    (Boy, this is starting to go all sorts of different directions, huh?)
  • Contributor - Level 2

    Re: Restarting with X32 - Looking for some advice

    Scott Kennett;157893 wrote:

  • When using an RTA, what are some misconceptions and mistakes in setting up a room? In reading the comments on the video by Drew Brashler, there appear to be a number of things he didn't discuss when setting up the sound, such as using a software analyzer (some very expensive software at that). We are not a rich church, and buying software like Smaart V8 is not gonna happen in this year's budget (either 2018 or 2019). If it costs money, we will need to take up an offering, and that still might not go toward software... the pastor's LAV mic needs some TLC.


  • unfortunately the mistake is using an rta. you really need a dual-fft like smaart. an rta might be able to reinforce what you already hear...but you really can't/shouldn't use it for anything beyond superficial tuning...at which point you'd probably just use your ear anyways.
    the problem with an rta is that while it's called a "real time analyzer"...it actually is time-blind in its measurement. what you see from the rta is the direct signal of the speaker...and every thing else...room modes/reflections/the musicians you start hacking away and you're doing much more harm than good. imho your ear can localize and differentiate what's coming from the speaker infinitely better than an rta.

    if you really wanted to use your rta...maybe take each speaker outside, raise the speaker way up over a lawn, and take an rta measurement right in front of the speaker. in this way you're minimizing reflections...and can get a baseline eq curve for your speaker.

    an rta would be good for identifying feedback frequencies...but there are phone apps that already do that really well. if you know what you're looking at.
    Volunteer Moderator

    Re: Restarting with X32 - Looking for some advice

    Scott Kennett;157919 wrote:
    I look forward to reviewing your results.

    It maybe tomorrow before I can get to testing them.

    A couple of questions on this paragraph:
    This tutorial video?

    Actually I was referring to the second link in the 4th paragraph of your first post. But that video tutorial by Drew does show how to use the X32 snippet GUI.

    I'm not tracking what you mean when you use the term 'granular'. Could you explain a little more the usage of that word as it applies here?

    Granular, as in more specific (grain level, rather than clumps of grains). Each of the filters in that snippet GUI combines a number of settings. For example the Fader, Pan filter would include both the fader and pan of the selected channels, etc. If you wanted to create a snippet that adjusted just the pans of a few channels, you wouldn't be able to do so by just using the snippet GUI.

    The interface also does not include a number of groups of settings. For example, the RTA settings that is needed to make the snippets that I'll be providing shortly cannot be created using this interface. I had to refer to Patrick's X32 OSC Protocol and use a text editor to create the snippet.

    I'm gathering that to do what that guy showed in the first link on how he sets up his scenes, I will need to more or less piece together an overall solution and 'create' a scene outside of the X32, then 'move' that into Scene 00 to be my base. Does that ring true to you?

    The way I create "master" scenes is by setting it up either on the X32 Console or in the X32-Edit app. Since I personally use the X32 Rack, which is normally stored in my garage with all of my audio gear (no room for my car of course), I do most of my scene development on my laptop with X32-Edit (or M32-Edit), then transfer it to the X32 Rack and testing, prior to loading everything in my trailer for the event.

    If that's true, this Scene would store all of the Base Level Routings for Mixes and Mains, as well as the EQ settings for those mixes / mains, which would (could?) also include FX's, Gains, etc.?

    Scenes store almost every settings, excluding most of the global settings, such as on the Home, global, remote, config, network, etc. screens as well as the Meters, RTA settings. Yes it would include what you listed and more. The best way to learn what a scene stores is to save a scene to a file and have a look at it, since it is an ASCII file of many OSC commands.

    Once that's accomplished, would I be OK to keep an active copy in Scene 00, and make a backup copy in Scene 99 (for example), and not use Scene Safes at all?

    I store backup copies of my scenes on my laptop and on my home NAS. At the church, we store the scene backups on a USB stick and on the laptop that is beside the console.

    I'm not sure (yet) what you mean by creating Snippets and doing things this way. Could you clarify that a little more, please? (A live video tutorial or even a screen-capture would be great! hint hint lol)

    The link I provided has screenshots. Scene Parser is only one tool available to create snippets external to the X32 console. I haven't made any video tutorials yet (maybe after I retire in a couple of years I'll have some time to learn how to do that like Drew Smiley Wink).

    What sort of editing would need to be done here to make that preset useful in my case? What changes would need to be made?

    Since the recall scope filters are not very granular, if you only want specific channel settings applied, you could edit the channel preset file (an ASCII file similar to a snippet, but with .chn extension) and remove any settings you don't want changed. The difference between presets and snippets is that snippets are channel specific and presets are not. In other words, a snippet would change something on channel 5 always, whereas a preset can be applied to any channel. Save a preset to a file and have a look.

    Getting back to using a Snippet... I get that a Snippet is like a micro-scene in that only the necessary changes needed are affected when loaded rather than the whole scene... a little faster and it doesn't overwrite things that aren't needed to be changed. What I'm a little lost on is how that's more effective in my needs than loading an entire scene from a base level, which in my mind would prevent any odd changes in the Mixes / Mains and their associated EQ settings. We currently are using upwards of 56 Scenes (obviously not all in the same month, let alone same service)... I think where we went wrong was to make changes to the mains / mixes on one or two scenes, then copy those to another set of scenes, make more changes, and we never really got a good, solid setup.

    That maybe possible. The other problem with doing this way (making many scenes as modified copies of a master scene) is that if there is a global change, such as routing changes (adding a stagebox for example), you will have to go through each scene (of the 56 that you currently have) and make the same changes. If not that particular scene may or may not work.

    If on the other hand, you use a master scene (or a few scenes) that setup the console on a macro scale, then use snippets to do the micro level changes, and later you add a stagebox or change routing, you would simply change the master scene (or scenes). It is a matter of different style of scene management.

    Near as I can tell, and for what I'm needing to accomplish, the only changes needing to be made would be to just the microphones used during singing, from one person to another. The choir mics won't change, neither would the piano and Classinova input, nor the pulpit mic, and rarely would the pastor's LAV mic. (I forgot to mention that we do have a bass guitar player also piped in. Bass players always seem to get overlooked, right?) We have a separate (same make/model) LAV mic for any guest pastors / missionaries, and this mic serves as a backup in case something drastic happens to pastor's primary LAV mic. The backup LAV is about the only one that would be the 'catch-all', and thereby have the greatest on-the-fly change between uses.

    If you have very little change from week to week (similar to what we have at my church), then just using a master scene and copy that for special events (eg. Easter or Christmas) would be the way to go.

    Actually that is what we do at my church. We have been able to include all potential inputs for the 3 worship teams in one scene. Each of us on the sound team simply load the master scene and tweak it each Sunday. Fortunately we use floor pockets in our stage. The inputs are fed to a side room where the S16's are located (in a rack with the amps and wireless receivers). When the team or one of the musicians move to a different location, the routing is changed by plugging in a different XLR cable to the specific S16 input (simple). I designed it that way knowing that the others on the team would struggle with the virtual routing in the X32.

    If we were to ring each of the wireless mics (which are the only ones that would be changed from person to person), and make adjustments to the individual Mixes (for the monitors and mains) by setting a tight Q in the PEQ... when things go from 'wet to dry' and vice-versa, or when the crowd goes from thick to thin, on the fly we could just widen out that Q setting to prevent any feedback. However, each person's frequency is different and would also be affected by how they hold the mics, so would setting anything up beforehand be of any value?

    Each mic input has its own EQ requirements and should be "rung out" in order to get as much gain before feedback. Beyond that, yes each week will probably need some tweaking, which would need some training in order to be successful. Shortly after we got the X32 system, I took one of the sound techs to a seminar at a nearby city. One of the topics that caught his attention was EQing. It was like a light came on for him. Since then he has been doing a great job during his week doing sound.

    By the way, in your experience for setting up the mixes:

    I'll have a look at those links when I get a moment and respond.
    Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator. Did you find my post helpful? Give kudos or mark it as a solution!
    Contributor - Level 3

    Re: Restarting with X32 - Looking for some advice

    I have skimmed this thread, so please forgive me if I am missing or misinterpreting something. You can take to following as recommendations or just me telling you some things that I do. Now just for your information I am a freelance Audio engineer, I have a lot of experience doing this. Instead of re-posting and editing what I have written previously see the link below and see my long post there.

    https://forum.musictribe.com/showthread.php?22666-Tips-and-Tricks-To-Track-Down-Feedback&highlight=L...
    Volunteer Moderator

    Re: Restarting with X32 - Looking for some advice

    Scott Kennett;157919 wrote:
    By the way, in your experience for setting up the mixes: Which would be better for the 4x monitors / 1x main / 1x sub-woofer? I ask because of what I read here, but this thread seemed more for a stage than a church, yet I've watched a video that conflict with that thread.

    I had a chance to review your 2 links. The first link of the post by Luke Geis is spot on. Learn to use the PEQ, but use it judiciously. In my analog days, all I had was 31 band EQ's (couldn't afford PEQ units back then). When I migrated to the X32, I continued to use the 31 band GEQ, until I learned (with some prodding and help) how to use the PEQ properly. Now I very rarely use a GEQ. By the way the poster just above (William Schnake) is a very good friend of mine that does medium size festivals (2000-5000 attendance) in the mid-west (full-time) and is the one we can all thank for the S32/DL32 idea.

    The second link (TechTuesday video) is about the dumbest one I've seen in a very long time. Why would you use a PEQ band to find the frequency then notch it on a GEQ? And he used high compression on an SM58 while doing it. The only positive thing I could see there is that he was using an X32.
    Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator. Did you find my post helpful? Give kudos or mark it as a solution!
    Contributor - Level 3

    Re: Restarting with X32 - Looking for some advice

    Saturday (yesterday), I had a chance to work at church to experiment and set levels on the X32 trying some of the above advice. I have got to say that my attempts were met with heartbreaking results.

    First of all, I had no idea that you couldn't just pick an unused scene and establish a blank baseline. I had to spend about 45 minutes zeroing out an existing scene from the initial setup from when we got the X32. I did not zero out the EQ for the main and monitor speakers... at least not yet at this point.

    Secondly, using the RTA mic like Drew suggested, I found many pockets of lows throughout the entire frequency band (basically skipping every other slider on the GEQ). These pockets appeared to be about 10-12db each, but I couldn't say for sure. I wasn't sure if this meant that we have a fairly balanced spectrum or what. So, I moved on.

    My next step was to work with our most problematic mic... the pulpit mic. I tried to increase the volume of it as much as I could before feedback, and this met with some unacceptable results... at least not to the level that I was hoping for. I kept pushing and mixing the PEQ on its (pulpit) channel as much as I could to get it above the level we currently are using, but all that I could do is get it close to the existing volume level, and it sounded like trash. I kept running into feedback problems no matter what. Adjusting with a wide PEQ setup essentially brought the entire spectrum down to an unusable level. I guess we have way too many hard surfaces for this specific mic.

    Fourth thing I did was to reset the PEQs for the main and monitors, and THEN re-tune the pulpit mic. However, it still had feedback problems, so I assigned a GEQ for each monitor and the main (5x in total) and I managed to increase things. It was at this point when I started to wonder if the mount was causing me fluctuating resonant issues. Adjusting one frequency introduced problems in other frequencies.

    (The mount is a non-shock mount style that essentially hugs the base of the mic, and this mount is securely fastened to the wooden pulpit, which is resting directly onto a wooden and very hollow platform, which is also what the monitors are resting on. I know that when you tap your fingers on the pulpit, this mic definitely pics that up. The same goes for tapping your foot on the wood floor... we do have a large throw rug immediately behind the pulpit).

    So, I got a boom-stand with rubber / plastic feet and situated it in front of the pulpit, positioning the mic's pickup physically at the same point as before, but this time with an SM58A Beta mic instead. With a lot more EQ tweaks in the mic, main, and monitors using both the mic and speaker's PEQ's and the speaker's GEQ's with a minimal amount of PEQ adjustments to them, I managed to eek out about another 10-12dB... probably the best we've ever had it, but still not to what I would consider 'acceptable'... yet.

    This convinced our sound director to re-examine how we're mic-ing the pulpit. We also had a discussion about speaker placement, and this led to him approaching our finance committee to get one more of the style speaker we currently have, and two of its bigger brothers to change the entire sound up in this room.

    I was only able to concentrate on the pulpit before I ran out of time.

    Before I go back for more, possibly in about a month, does anyone have any suggestions or ideas that doesn't involve buying anything greater than $50.00, other than to isolate the EZG/12?