Contributor - Level 2

One M32Live receiving 38 mic level signals from TWO DL 32s...

I tried this connection scheme. 

 

I have a rig with one M32Live for house and monitors. 
 
I have two DL32s. 
I want to have 40 (or 38 is all I think I can do) mic pres from stage. 
 
I have quickly tried a few options. Of course getting 32 channels through AES50A is the easy part. Its adding the 2nd DL 32 to fill in the Aux In channels at a mic level that I can't seem to make happen. 
 
I DID get my usual 32 channels of mic pres through the 1st DL32, and then got the last 6 channels through the other, but they were at line level. These were the three connections. 
 
M32 (Out AES50A), to 1st DL32 (input AES50A). 
1st DL32 (Out AES50B) to 2nd DL32 (input AES50A)
M32 (Out AES50B) to 2nd DL32 (input AES50B.) 
 
If this is doable, please show routing. 
steve
 
 
Stevenhealth Contributor - Level 2 2019-11-27

2019-11-27

One M32Live receiving 38 mic level signals from TWO DL 32s...

I tried this connection scheme. 

 

I have a rig with one M32Live for house and monitors. 
 
I have two DL32s. 
I want to have 40 (or 38 is all I think I can do) mic pres from stage. 
 
I have quickly tried a few options. Of course getting 32 channels through AES50A is the easy part. Its adding the 2nd DL 32 to fill in the Aux In channels at a mic level that I can't seem to make happen. 
 
I DID get my usual 32 channels of mic pres through the 1st DL32, and then got the last 6 channels through the other, but they were at line level. These were the three connections. 
 
M32 (Out AES50A), to 1st DL32 (input AES50A). 
1st DL32 (Out AES50B) to 2nd DL32 (input AES50A)
M32 (Out AES50B) to 2nd DL32 (input AES50B.) 
 
If this is doable, please show routing. 
steve
 
 

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Rising Star - Level 2

Re: One M32Live receiving 38 mic level signals from TWO DL 32s...

@Stevenhealth 

This is doable. There are two ways. You only need 2 cables not three.

1. M32 [A] <-> [A] DL32 [B] <-> [A] DL32

2. M32 [A] <-> [A] DL32  &  M32 [B] <-> [A] DL32

The simplest routing is with scenario #2.

Screen Shot 2019-11-27 at 10.51.46 AM.png

Edit: Scenario #1 is similar. Aux In Remap will be Aux In Remap AES50 A1-6 and then the other AES50-A channels need to be shifted be a bank of eight (eg AES50-A 9-16 —>Channel 1-8) 

 

Contributor - Level 2

Re: One M32Live receiving 38 mic level signals from TWO DL 32s...

The reason for the 3rd cable was to get sync to the 2nd DL32. Seems like I tried this and the 2nd DL32 just flashed at me red. When I plugged in it with the three cables; it sync'd and worked, but the inputs were obviously line level. I need them mic level. 

You sure these scenarios you offer will allow the 2nd DL32 to sync?

(I set the M32Live to 'Internal Clock' assuming it has to be the clock. )

Thanks again for the help. 

 

 

Rising Star - Level 2

Re: One M32Live receiving 38 mic level signals from TWO DL 32s...


@Stevenhealth wrote:

The reason for the 3rd cable was to get sync to the 2nd DL32. Seems like I tried this and the 2nd DL32 just flashed at me red. When I plugged in it with the three cables; it sync'd and worked, but the inputs were obviously line level. I need them mic level. 


Control the pre-amps from this page (M32-Edit)Screen Shot 2019-11-27 at 7.18.28 PM.png

 

You sure these scenarios you offer will allow the 2nd DL32 to sync?


That is how it's designed. Both should work. What M32 and DL32 firmware are you using?

 

(I set the M32Live to 'Internal Clock' assuming it has to be the clock. )

 


Yes. That is correct.

Contributor - Level 3

Re: One M32Live receiving 38 mic level signals from TWO DL 32s...

The DL32s will receive always receive clock on their portA, and will always pass it on to whatever is connected on their portB.
If you go Console(master)>[A]socket of DL32(1), that's the first DL32 receiving clock. That first DL32 will then pass that clock signal on out of its B socket. You'd then go DL32(1)[B]>[A]DL32(2). That passes the clock signal from the 1st DL32's B socket to the 2nd DL32's A socket, so the 2nd DL32 can receive clock.


Due to the AES50 stream to the console only being able to carry 48 signals, it'll see all preamps on the first DL32, but only the first 16 preamps on the 2nd DL32.


However you can only get 38 signals onto the console's channels.

I'd set the AuxInRemap to AES50A 1-6, for the first 6 preamps on DL32(1).
Don't use preamps 7+8 on DL32(1).
Then set:
Ch1-8 to AES50A 9-16 (preamps 9-16 on DL32(1))
Ch9-16 to AES50A 17-24 (preamps 17-24 on DL32(1))
Ch17-24 to AES50A 25-32 (preamps 25-32 on DL32(1))
Ch25-32 to AES50A 33-40 (preamps 1-8 on DL32(2))


Re the line level vs mic level.
The aux channels only have a digital trim, because the console assumes that the aux channels are connected to the console's TRS aux sockets, which don't have a preamp, which is why you don't get a preamp gain on those channels. If those aux channels are instead connected to a preamp via the AuxInRemap, or simply by changing the aux channel's source to a local preamp, the trim control will be replaced with a gain control, (though IME the label doesn't change, but the scale does,) unless you've switch on the HA gain split option. Even if you have enabled gain splitting, the preamps can still be controlled by going to the Setup>Preamps page, or by selecting the Aux channel and going to its config tab.

Valued Contributor - Level 2

Re: One M32Live receiving 38 mic level signals from TWO DL 32s...

The DL32 operates differently then most stage boxes with regard to the B port. It is true the clock sync on the DL needs to come in from the A port and lets the mixer that is connected there control the preamps AND dictate the DL outputs. However it allows access to and use of those preamps via the B port as long as it sees s clock source on port A. The basic idea there was to allow 2 mixers to share a single DL32’s inputs. So if connecting to the B port (using the loop you created) you would only ever get TRIM via DL32 #2's aes50B port-but you would get access to all 32 preamps at the FOH using M32 aes50B. 

 

Why not disconnect DL32 #1 from DL32 #2 and use them on separate M32 ports, both connected via each DL’s A port? That way you still get access to and control of all DL32’s preamps and have full control all 32 DL outputs. You still will only get 38 total ins at the M32 but you have full preamp control. You will get sync at both DL’s if the M32 is set INT. All DL32 #1 pre’s will be aes50a 1-32 All DL32 #2 will be aes50 b 1-32. You have access to all 64 mic pre’s, 38 at a time (using aux remap). You can dictate all the DL outputs. You can rout any of either DL32's mic pre's via M32 aes50a/b out.  

 

M32 A<>A DL32 #1

M32 B<>A DL32 #2

Contributor - Level 2

Re: One M32Live receiving 38 mic level signals from TWO DL 32s...

Gary, 

 

Thank you. I swear I tried the last solution you offered, because that is the easiest way to consider and employ. (Albeit, two ethernets cables to FOH.) I will try it again tomorrow and see.

Somehow, I eventually got the AuxinRemap getting the 1-6 from DL#2 correct, but they were seemingly line level. Let me check the obvious things I know of to assure that they should receive real mic pre signals and mic level. Most obviously, NO HA gain split. Clock set to INT. I did not check the AES50A and B outputs, as I don't normally seem to need to change those. 

I DID check the preamp levels, and attempted to jack them up there to no avail. 

It would seem with two cables, and clock set to INT, that I would just map the DL32 (1) to the 1st 32 channels of the M32,  and then map the DL32 (2) 1-6 to the Aux ins. 

It appears that we are in agreement that the M32 DOES send clock out AES50B. If memory serves is it possible that the 2nd DL32 didn't see a clock from the B output? I thought it gave me the dreaded red blinking light. 

 

I'll report back. 

 

steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Contributor - Level 2

Re: One M32Live receiving 38 mic level signals from TWO DL 32s...

Thanks Craig, 

That all makes sense. I tried a setup such as this, and could not get mic levels. I believe I did have HA gain split on, and even went to the preamps to no avail. 

Your idea does allow only one cable to FOH, which is good. 

I have rearranged your idea below for your perusal and confirmation. It allows me to have the same 1-32 on the 1st DL as the console, to help alleviate confusion. Then DL#2 would be the 33-38. 

Ch1-8 to AES50A 1-8 (preamps 1-8 on DL32(1))
Ch9-16 to AES50A 9-16 (preamps 9-16 on DL32(1))
Ch17-24 to AES50A 17-24 (preamps 17-24 on DL32(1))
Ch25-32 to AES50A 25-32 (preamps 25-32 on DL32(1))

THE AUXINREMAP

Aux in 1-6 to AES50A 33-39(?) (preamps 1-6 on DL32(2)

No HA split, still internal clock.

Seem right?

steve

 

 

Rising Star - Level 2

Re: One M32Live receiving 38 mic level signals from TWO DL 32s...


@Stevenhealth wrote:

THE AUXINREMAP

Aux in 1-6 to AES50A 33-39(?) (preamps 1-6 on DL32(2)


Which firmware are you using? Version 4 can do it. Version 3 cannot.

Contributor - Level 3

Re: One M32Live receiving 38 mic level signals from TWO DL 32s...

Re the AuxIn Remap.

As Dave said, in fw v3 the AuxIn Remap can only see up to the first 6 signals in the stream, be it an AES50 stream, or the Card ins, or local preamps etc.  It can only access "1-6" of whatever that group of sources is.  This is why I *had* to do AES50 1-6 for the AuxIn Remap, skipped DL32 preamps 7+8, then started then had to start the actual channels 1-8 with preamps 9-16.  Those first preamps on the 2nd DL32 (because it's daisy chained) are actually signals 33-40 in the AES50 stream coming into the console.  They can be assigned to regual inputs, but 33-40 is a long way removed from 1-6; the AuxIn Remap can't see them.

 

In v4 they added a "User" section to the routing that makes this more flexible, however v4 isn't perfect, so it might be worth waiting for the update they're working on.

 

What exactly do you mean by you "could not get mic levels."  What were you looking at in the interface that indicated you were getting a line-level signal?  Can you provide screenshots and\or (ideally and) upload your scene file so we can see how you've got things configured.

 

TIA