Contributor - Level 3

Using an S16 Snake with P16M without X32, is this possible?

We are using the S16 snake on both ends. One end is connected to a board via the XLR ports, and the other end is for the worship team.

QUSTIONS:

1) I was told that I cannot use the P16M  without  the Behringer X32 mixing board to do the routing. Is this true?

2) If not, can I simply daisy chain four P16M to the band's S16 Ultranet port and expect it to work?

3) If not, what is required?

4) If it does work, what do we need to get the P16Ms to work without using the power adapters on each? We just need the minimum hardware. I see the P16i and P16d, but no one can answer which one we need that will work with only the S16 to S16 configuration that we already have.

5) if the P16d is enough (by connecting S16 Ultranet out to p16d Ultranet in), is there a way to rack mount it?

thefed Contributor - Level 3 2019-08-19

2019-08-19

Using an S16 Snake with P16M without X32, is this possible?

We are using the S16 snake on both ends. One end is connected to a board via the XLR ports, and the other end is for the worship team.

QUSTIONS:

1) I was told that I cannot use the P16M  without  the Behringer X32 mixing board to do the routing. Is this true?

2) If not, can I simply daisy chain four P16M to the band's S16 Ultranet port and expect it to work?

3) If not, what is required?

4) If it does work, what do we need to get the P16Ms to work without using the power adapters on each? We just need the minimum hardware. I see the P16i and P16d, but no one can answer which one we need that will work with only the S16 to S16 configuration that we already have.

5) if the P16d is enough (by connecting S16 Ultranet out to p16d Ultranet in), is there a way to rack mount it?

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Volunteer Moderator

Re: Using an S16 Snake with P16M without X32, is this possible?

Hi Federico,

Welcome to the forum. If you are using 2 S16's as a digital snake, they would be configured in a master/slave configuration, where one would be using one of the modes in the range of 7-10 as master and the other would use one of the modes in the range of 1-6 (see configuration) as slave. To me that is a very impractical method of using the S16's since you can only transfer 8 channels in both directions (due to the 8 channel outputs of the S16). But I will answer your questions.

 


@thefed wrote:

1) I was told that I cannot use the P16M  without  the Behringer X32 mixing board to do the routing. Is this true?

That depends on which mode the particular S16 is using. If it is the master, it would have to be in mode 9 or 10 (LED Splitter is on - difference is the sample rate). If it is the slave, it would have to be in mode 4 (LED Splitter is on). 

2) If not, can I simply daisy chain four P16M to the band's S16 Ultranet port and expect it to work?

Same answer as above

3) If not, what is required?

Same answer as above

4) If it does work, what do we need to get the P16Ms to work without using the power adapters on each? We just need the minimum hardware. I see the P16i and P16d, but no one can answer which one we need that will work with only the S16 to S16 configuration that we already have.

You need one or more P16D. Each one can provide for 8 P16 (both power and signal). The P16i is designed to be used with an analog console to provide for P16 directly (no S16 or other stageboxes). 

5) if the P16d is enough (by connecting S16 Ultranet out to p16d Ultranet in), is there a way to rack mount it?

No, the P16D was not meant to be rackmounted. That said, we have our P16D (at my church) sitting on a shelf in the rack (in a room at stage right) that also has the two S16, wireless mic receivers, amps, sequencer, etc. The P16D as well as the S16's are connected to a number of floor pockets that are located in various places in the stage floor. We use the full size X32 (since Dec 2012). 


I would highly recommend that your church seriously consider getting an X32 (or M32) and make full use of your two S16. If budget is an issue, consider getting an X32 Rack. 

Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator
Regular Contributor - Level 1

Re: Using an S16 Snake with P16M without X32, is this possible?

You do need a master mixer with aes50 to then sync the s16’s to, so you can use the S16 ultranet port. When that happens the S16 ultranet port spits out whatever is assigned to aes50 33-48 from the X32 master. Without that the S16 has no ability to assign sources to its own ultranet port-afaik anyway.

The P16D supplies power to any P16m’s or additional P16D’s connected to it so this allows P16m use without individual power supplies.

The p16i can accept analog inputs and adat inputs or a combo of both and output them via its ultranet ports. It WILL connect properly with P16M’s. So it seems that you could connect the S16 analog outs (maybe adat too, not sure there) to a P16i and then use the p16m’s. A problem could be cables, as the analog inputs of the P16i are 1/4” so you would need a bunch of  xlr to 1/4” cables. Should work.

 

Sorry Paul, when I started writing this I didn’t see your post!

Contributor - Level 3

Re: Using an S16 Snake with P16M without X32, is this possible?

@Paul_Vannatto ,

Thank you so much for the answers. The sound company installed an Allen And Heath board and basically just used the s16 as the snake from the board on the choir loft to the bottom of the altar area where our contemporary band plays.

Of course they would recommend the A&H ME-50 for the personal monitor mixer but that would complicate things because we only have one cat5 port, so either use it for the s16 snake or the ME-50 but not for both.

Now, doing an internet search I found out about the ultranet capabilities of the s16 to use with the p16m which got me excited.

What is it that I need to check to verify that we can in fact use the p16m. I'll show it to the sound engineer.

 

 

Contributor - Level 3

Re: Using an S16 Snake with P16M without X32, is this possible?

Thanks @garyh !  Like I told @Paul_Vannatto , the church just had a new board installed and the s16 was just selected after the fact to serve as a snake.  

ALLEN&HEATH>(analog xlrs)>S16 Head>(digital cat5)>S16 Tail. All I want is to have the ability to hook up 4 personal monitor systems like the P16M.

Volunteer Moderator

Re: Using an S16 Snake with P16M without X32, is this possible?


@thefed wrote:

@Paul_Vannatto ,

Thank you so much for the answers. The sound company installed an Allen And Heath board and basically just used the s16 as the snake from the board on the choir loft to the bottom of the altar area where our contemporary band plays.

What exactly are you using the S16 pair for? Do you have the mics and instruments plugged into the S16 at the alter area (to be sent to the A&H console), or are you using it to send the outputs of the A&H console to the S16 at the alter? It makes a huge difference in whether the S16 Ultranet is getting the desired signals. 

Of course they would recommend the A&H ME-50 for the personal monitor mixer but that would complicate things because we only have one cat5 port, so either use it for the s16 snake or the ME-50 but not for both.

It wouldn't take much to pull a second ethernet cable from the choir loft to the alter area, would it?

What is it that I need to check to verify that we can in fact use the p16m. I'll show it to the sound engineer.

In order to answer that correctly, I need an answer to my question above.

 

 


 

Paul Vannatto, Volunteer Forum Administrator and Moderator
Super Contributor - Level 2

Re: Using an S16 Snake with P16M without X32, is this possible?

I honestly thought you were using 2 S16's as a "stand alone" system (mode 7 or 8) and NO mixer-which can be done. As Paul said it's sort of limited as just that. But the 16 inputs from the slave S16 do appear at the master S16. Inputs 1-8 are seen on the master S16 as xlr outs 1-8, inputs 9-16 of the slave S16 are seen on the master S16's Adat outs 9-16. You could then connect the Master's xlrs to the analog inputs 1-8 of a P16i, the Masters adat outs 9-16 to the P16i adat inputs. Then connect your p16M's to the P16i. Maybe a bit convoluted but it would work. You would need to find a P16i and a few more $ though. I suppose if the A+H had 16 direct outs and they were connected to the slave S16's inputs, it may work.

 

From the S16 manual:

Capture2.PNG

Contributor - Level 3

Re: Using an S16 Snake with P16M without X32, is this possible?

The manual is exactly how we have it set up now. 

If I understand correctly,  your suggestion would involve putting the p16i up next to the board next to the master, which defeats the purpose because the band is next to the slave on the other end of the snake. 

Also,  currently, we do use all 16 inputs on the slave and 4 aux outs for the wedges. Not sure if I'm making sense.  

Based on that description,  does it still make sense to use the p16m monitor mixer? 

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Super Contributor - Level 2

Re: Using an S16 Snake with P16M without X32, is this possible?


@thefed wrote:

The manual is exactly how we have it set up now. 

If I understand correctly,  your suggestion would involve putting the p16i up next to the board next to the master, which defeats the purpose because the band is next to the slave on the other end of the snake. 

Also,  currently, we do use all 16 inputs on the slave and 4 aux outs for the wedges. Not sure if I'm making sense.  

Based on that description,  does it still make sense to use the p16m monitor mixer? 


@thefed 

If you set your Slave S16 to mode 4, the sixteen local XLR inputs would be sent out of the Ultranet so you could use them on P16M monitor mixers. The P16Ms would not receive any of the signals sent by the Master S16.

Contributor - Level 3

Re: Using an S16 Snake with P16M without X32, is this possible?

@RexBeckett , this sounds like a solution that we need to try. But does this mess up or change the current communication we have it on between the slave and master?